04-25-2009, 06:42 PM
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Location: sacramento,ca
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so far this month..6 new fords..4 fusions..1 edge..1 flex..and 3 used fords....i have a freind at a chysler/dodge dearlership( he in the finace dept.) they seldom see any customers anymore.. that dealership as of friday, last i talked to him....13 cars for the month..( the whole dealership).. and he works in a bigger city/area then we do...i am in a small town..dixon ,ca.
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Last edited by bianchi1; 04-25-2009 at 07:19 PM.
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04-25-2009, 07:02 PM
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Darth Slacker
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern NY, USA
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Regarding the AFM:
Has anyone unplugged the harness from the AFM and looked inside the female plug to see if any of the contact terminals had been inadvertantly shoved back into the housing?
Having all the wires sticking out on the visible side doesn't mean they are getting contact inside.
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04-25-2009, 08:02 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Beautiful Downtown Carver, MA
Posts: 830
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by bianchi1
so far this month..6 new fords..4 fusions..1 edge..1 flex..and 3 used fords....i have a freind at a chysler/dodge dearlership( he in the finace dept.) they seldom see any customers anymore.. that dealership as of friday, last i talked to him....13 cars for the month..( the whole dealership).. and he works in a bigger city/area then we do...i am in a small town..dixon ,ca.
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 Sadly we walked down this path together hand in hand... And we will walk out together, the same way.. A bit poorer, but hopefully a lot wiser. Good luck in the auto business... I am in the Furniture business, and you want to see resistance to buy!!! Be Well. This too shall pass....
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Peter L. Carver, MA
Spiders, spiders everywhere...
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04-25-2009, 10:03 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mebane, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifosi
Regarding the AFM:
Has anyone unplugged the harness from the AFM and looked inside the female plug to see if any of the contact terminals had been inadvertantly shoved back into the housing?
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If that ain't it & you substituted a 'known good' AFM (was the replacement taken out of a car that'd run right?), my next suggestion is to unplug the harness connectors at the computers and make sure there are no electrical faults in the harness itself. Below are the 'pin outs' of the IGN & FI harness plugs.
You can run the same tests outlined the L-jet page using a volt-ohm meter at the harness connector to make sure the harness (& all connections along the way) is in good shape. [i]NOTE: do not touch the ohm meter's probes to the computer itself - only to the disconnected harness connector.[i/]
I don't have available the expected values from the AFM. The Alfa Shop manual outlines the use of the "Official Bosch FI ECU Tester" - basically a Volt/Ohm Meter that hooks on to the ECU harness connector. A rotary switch on the tester allows one to run through a series of tests but it doesn't tell me what the expected values should be... For now the best I can suggest is to make sure there is continuity from the ECU harness connector to the AFM connector.
My next other wild guess is to make sure the TPS (Throttle Position Switch) is not faulty. Note that it is not a Throttle Position Sensor. The TPS has three outputs - idle, not idle, & wide open. The computer uses this info to decide if the engine is idling, cruising, at maximum acceleration or deceleration. During deceleration, the computer shuts off the fuel injectors until the rpm's get down to near idle speed. Thus it might be possible for a faulty or misadjusted TPS to signal the computer to (erroneously) cut off fuel. Maybe?
NOTE: ignition must be OFF before disconnecting/reconnecting ECU harness connectors.
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04-25-2009, 10:16 PM
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Location: Mebane, NC
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Here's what the "Official Bosch FI ECU Tester" looks like:
And a page of info about them: Bosch L-Jetronic Tester |
04-26-2009, 05:31 AM
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Trained Professional
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 8,246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aggie06
1) if i start the car with the AFM plugged in but manual turned the potentiometer past midway and the car will run smoothly. if i let it drop past midway then it dies immediately.
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My thought is that by manually opening the AFM at idle, and the engine then running smooth, is simply compensating for an extremely lean mixture. Short of a massive vacuum leak, an open coolant temperature sensor signal can cause this. The sensor is located in the intake manifold between #3 & #4 injectors and has a tan colored connector. I'd check the resistance values of the sensor and the integrity of the connector. Resistance values are;
-10*C = 7k-12k ohms
+20*C = 2k-3k ohms
+80*C - 250-400 ohms
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Jim
Series 1 Euro 1750 GTV
Series 2 USA 1750 GTV
Series 3 Spider Veloce
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04-26-2009, 08:13 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 35
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WOW!
A lot of brain cells being directed at this mystery! I get my Alfa to run for three seconds before it dies as well. I'm noiding it this afternoon, then popping injectors, teeing the fuel line, etc. ... and then I have this GREAT road map you guys have provided to lead me to Happy Alfa Land!
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04-26-2009, 11:00 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chama,NM
Posts: 41
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A suggestion to you---Please read papajam and tifosi thoughts. You can solve a lot of problems by just manually holding the FAM flapper half open and see if it runs. Next do tifosi sugg. and then to gnhl. Good luck we're still in La La land.
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04-26-2009, 11:10 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sacramento,ca
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peter, we do not even order excursion( they don't make them any more) or expedtions.. no one wants them, but here in farm country,, lots of f 150 and 250 work trucks.
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don't follow me,i'am lost
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04-26-2009, 11:28 AM
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One can never go wrong listening to PapaJam. Him smart guy.
Note that there are two coolant temp sensors - two wires each in a Bosch connector. One sensor is for the injection computer (sketch below #38), the other for the ignition computer (#40). (plus there is a sender for the dash gauge - single wire #41). #37 is the Thermo Time Switch and #39 is a fuel injector.
If the sensors check out OK, next step is to measure at the computer's harness connectors (remembering to NOT place an ohm meter's probes on the computer - only on the disconnected harness connector). This will make sure there isn't a fault in the wire harness or any connector along the way.
As shown in the sketch in reply 34 the ignition computer's temp sensor connects to pins 12 & 13. The injection computer's temp sensor connects to pins 13 & 5 (pin 5 is grounded at the altitude compensation device).
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04-26-2009, 04:44 PM
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Darth Slacker
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern NY, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aggie06G-pa
papajam and tifosi and then to gnhl
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papajam is the smart one, ghnl ain't a dummy either and he has pics of everything under the sun while I tend to take the shotgun approach and will generally overlook the blatantly obvious for the complicated.
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04-26-2009, 07:34 PM
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Senior Member
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I'm thinking we need some photos of the car. This thread is up to 3 pages and no photos of the car...
OK, I admit to being stumped...
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04-26-2009, 09:27 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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What about the altitude compensation device. has anyone had any run ins with one that has failed?
BTW the temp sensors tested ok this evening. Tried them hot and cold.
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04-27-2009, 06:28 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chama,NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifosi
Prolly better off ordering it as papjam, ghnl then mabe me.
papajam is the smart one, ghnl ain't a dummy either and he has pics of everything under the sun while I tend to take the shotgun approach and will generally overlook the blatantly obvious for the complicated. |
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04-27-2009, 02:07 PM
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Darth Slacker
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern NY, USA
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Pix need to be saved in jpeg or jpg format (there are many other acceptable formats, but that is one of the most efficient for the forum) size of file must be smaller than 249kb (reduce size or quality of file in your art program) and no bigger than 700 pixels wide (reduce size in your art program)
Click 'new reply' and under the text box you'll see 'manage attachments'.
Click that and a sub window will pop up.
The top box is 'upload from your comupter'.
Click the 'browse' button and search around with that on your PC to find the file, click it.
Click 'upload'.
When it's uploaded, click 'close this window', tpye your text in the box, click submit, and if all is right with the world, your pic will show up as an attachment to your post.
Quote:
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graduated as an engineer from Texas A&M
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