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S3 Spider fuel issue

7K views 39 replies 6 participants last post by  ghnl 
#1 ·
Hi. Im in the process of restoring my Alfa Spider and ill post some pics up soon. I bought it a few months ago and it did have some problems. One of the first drives it was running rough and not well up hills. Some of the guys on here told me to check the fuel filters, however I havent got to that yet as im fixing other things. I went to start it on the weekend and it seems to be getting no fuel (I did remove the fuel hose to manifold and turn the car over and noting), perhaps the pump is no good and this might explain the issue mentioned. Im yet to get a book on the car, can anyone tell me where the filters are and the pump also? I have read there is an in tank and a main pump? Not sure if this is right? any help appreciated.
 
#2 ·
Have you gone through the checks outlined in the Spider L-jet Diagnosis page? (link below)

Is there gas in the tank? Does the in-tank pump function? Are the pumps getting power (they only get power under two conditions - the engine is running or the key is turned to 'start')? Does you car have the inertia fuel pump shut off switch? What color is your car? Do you have any pictures of a pretty woman standing next to it? (post that!)
 
#3 ·
can anyone tell me where the filters are and the pump also? I have read there is an in tank and a main pump? Not sure if this is right? any help appreciated.
shiny silver thing is the main filter, not so shiny thing is the main pump:)
and yes, you have an in tank pump and a secondary filter sock on that.

to test the pumps, lift up the parcel shelf carpet:
first check the 8A fuse and the fuse holder itself, the bullet fuse holders cause trouble. If that is good, pull the drive/fuel relay (the bigger one) and jump the connector socket between pin #87 & #30, pumps should run, and if so car should start.
further reading here:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/1069165-post5.html

(if you cant hear the in-tank pump: to test in-tank pump separately, remove trunk carpet, and rubber thingy, and apply 12v+ to pink/white terminal and negative to black.....you should hear it humm happily;))
 

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#4 ·
Cheers for that. Much appreciated. I removed the main filter under the car and tested it on the battery and it works however it wasnt getting power. I replaced the filter under the car also. I have lifted the parcel shelf, found the fuse you noted and its broken. Ill get one tomorrow and see if it starts.
I removed the tank sender unit and see the pic attached, there is no pump attached, only mesh over the end of the pipe. Does this matter? The car ran fine when I bought it but started running terrible up to a few weeks before the car wouldnt start. Whats the purpose of the in tank pump? Does it just pressurize the line before the main pump and if its not there like mine what would the problems be?
Thanks again for the help.
 

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#6 ·
Im in Australia its 1983. I bought the car and thats what I found as you see in the pictures.
I have been fixing things on the car since buying it and found this today when trying to get to the bottom of why;
1. The car was running poorly
2. The fuel stopped being pumped - I believe the broken fuse I found today will solve this issue. Ill get a fuse tomorrow.

Im not sure why there is no in tank pump, perhaps it broke on the previous owner and this is what they did to resolve the issue. When I bought the car it ran ok, but up hills it was lagging badly.
 
#7 ·
The in-tank pump is needed is you have a fuel injected (L-jetronic) engine. It acts as a lift pump to send fuel to the main pump which then provides the higher pressure the FI system requires. Without the in-tank pump the main pump will have difficulty when the fuel level in the tank gets below ~ 1/2 full. As the pump struggles it may be be damaged. The fuel flowing through the pump both cools and lubricates it.

If your car has the original 'bullet' fuse for the fuel pumps, replace it with a blade fuse/blade fuse holder. The bullet fuse can be a weak point. 8 amps is the correct size.
 
#8 ·
Once again, I appreciate the advice. Ill get an in tank pump and replace the bullet fuse with an 8A Blade fuse. Thats a good suggestion. Im not sure why the in tank pump was removed, but this might be one of the main reasons the car is performing so poorly.
 
#9 ·
You will also need a 'stepped hose' to connect the in-tank pump to the outlet pipe. Some have made their own version by stuffing a short piece of smaller hose into a short piece of larger hose. However, some hose is not fuel resistant on the outside and the hoses may eventually turn to rubbery goo.

Be sure you are sitting down when you check the price of the stepped hose.
 

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#13 ·
Try alfaholics. I've heard theirs is less expensive. I'm not sure who has the better piece though. Your location might dictate final money spent after shipping, etc...
 
#14 · (Edited)
#15 ·
Hi. I replaced the fuse as suggested. Started the car and the fuse blew. I disconnected the tank sender wires, replaced the fuse and the car started. The sender when connected did make the fuel gauge work. I remember when removing the sender there was a loose wire, i connected it to the body of the sender, perhaps I made a mistake. Does anyone have a wiring diagram of the sender? I am looking to purchase the in tank pump, hose and filter. At least the car runs now, so thats for all the advice. Thanks for the pictures also and I have also questioned Classic Alfa whom Ive bought a bit of gear from, as to their pricing. I need other things as well, so might as well get it all sorted in one go.
 
#16 ·
for a color wiring diagram, send a PM to 'Papajam' include year of spider and your email address.

originally the in tank fuel pump has a pink/white
the sender has a violet
the low fuel light has a black/white

but I can't see anything like those, in the strange wiring in your post # 4 above.

does your sender unit have 3 spade contacts on top plus the ground (so 4 in all), as in the photo of the sender, 2 posts above?
If not, you'll need that too, to connect the pump etc....
 
#19 ·
It occurred to me. The picture I sent of my sender has wired near it that arent for the sender, they are for the rear tail light. The wire colours to the top of the sender from memory are Pink, Violet, Black and White. I think the issue is the wire inside the tank.. At the time I was looking at it I was confused as to why there was no pump there.
 
#21 ·
Just when I thought I had found the problem, the car wouldnt start again this morning. No fuel being pumped again. I have a feeling it might be the pump relay but not sure so ill explain my findings;

I wired up the in tank sender again and the fuse under the parcel shelf doesnt blow.
I have read through this post and this is what I find - http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/1069165-post5.html
With the relay plugged into the socket, on key turn it does click but no fuel is pumped.
I remove the relay and jump 87 and 30 and the pump runs.
12v doesnt comes out of 87 socket.
12v comes out of socket 30, key on or not.
12v comes out of socket 15 at start.
No reading on socket 50.

Something really isnt making sense...
 
#22 ·
Well I think I know what the problem is;

In my post above I believe I made a few errors in saying no readings out of 87 and 50. I tested all this stuff a few times and it was doing my head in. In the end I gave up and packed it in.
I thought id take the relay out and put it in the sun for a bit and see if that made a difference. It started once I put the relay back in. My guess is that there is wear in the relay and as it was quite cold here yesterday the contacts didnt meet so the pump wouldnt work. Ill keep testing but it looks like a replacement relay is in order. Could be worse, could be the computer..

Does anyone know if there is a cheaper relay alternative replacement to the standard Bosh one. I almost fell over when I saw the price of them!
 
#23 ·
in all the posts I have read there are 2 options to the expensive Bosch 0.280.230.001 (0280230001) relay

the KAE 3.304.500, which many say lets the pumps run all the time (not terribly safe) and
the Beck Arnley 203-0100 Relay...(which might just be the KAE in Beck Arnley clothing;))

if it were my car I'd look for a good tested used Bosch!
like this from BB's rogerspeed: ebay # 322510296276

or another a seller we all know up in Canada, ebay #262970230058
 
#24 ·
I've not used one but I have read that the KAE version might allow the fuel pumps to run continuously. This is not as intended and is a safety failure. The Bosch relay will cut power to the pumps if the engine is not running - as in if it stalls or in an accident.

Also, the relay does not power up the fuel pumps with the key on/engine off. The engine has to be running for it to send the tachymetric signal (from the coil) to trigger the relay. There is also a bypass circuit that bypasses the relay when the key is turned to the 'start' position. This ensures the fuel pumps gets power during cranking/before the engine starts.
 
#25 ·
Guys, I have no intention to a cheap and nasty change over. If I cant get something which does what the original Bosh is designed to do, ill just spend the money on the right part. The safety features built in are a good design feature and something I wouldnt want bypassd. Ill check out those Ebay listings and see what options there are.
I wonder if mine could be repaired? Or are they are throw away item?
Id say that as mine works when warmed up, some contacts inside have just worn a little. They will obviously get worse over time though.
 
#26 ·
I wonder if mine could be repaired? Or are they are throw away item?
Id say that as mine works when warmed up, some contacts inside have just worn a little. They will obviously get worse over time though.
this is the insides of the KAE relay, probably similar to the Bosch.....
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/6780409-post25.html
I suppose you could check the points, maybe clean them/file them a bit, and recheck before spending hard earned cash on a new or s/h one.

(and I'm sure we'd like to see the insides of your orig. Bosch relay, just for prosperity's sake:))
 
#27 ·
I suppose the 'Beck Arnley 203-0100 Relay' could be an alternative to the Bosh and deliver the same working results as the Bosh at a fraction of the price.
I might pull the Bosh case off and photograph whats inside but only when I get a replacement :)
 
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