What is it with this GL-5 gear oil?? - Page 7 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #91 of 116 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 08:44 AM
Richard Jemison
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Lube

Why ask? You have the information.

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post #92 of 116 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 09:11 AM
But Mad North-Northwest
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Originally Posted by oldcanuck View Post
One question.... the Redline Dist. has 75W/90 GL5 and MT90 which is 75W/90 GL4...... what is the difference, and can I use them in my Duetto diff ?
GL4 has lower levels of EP (extreme pressure) additives than GL5. It should not be used in differentials as it does not have enough EP protection for the ring and pinion gears.

Tom

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1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
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post #93 of 116 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Alfar7 View Post
Why ask? You have the information.
As you can see I am fairly new here.....and going through this thread I'm afraid I don't see any specific Duetto information related to what I asked.... I see plenty of S2 and S3 referrals, but nothing specific to earlier models.

Thanks for being a Richard.

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1976 Spider Veloce
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post #94 of 116 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcanuck View Post
Richard,

Thank you.... I am putting Redline 75W/90 in my Duetto gearbox.

One question.... the Redline Dist. has 75W/90 GL5 and MT90 which is 75W/90 GL4...... what is the difference, and can I use them in my Duetto diff ?

Thanks is advance.
If you are looking to Redline, then a answer may be found by calling them.

https://www.redlineoil.com/contact.aspx

PHONE: (707) 745-6100 or (800) 624-7958

Ask for an engineer, and ask about your tranny, and rear end ( diff! ) - he/she will recommend what they think is correct from their product line. For me ( 1982 ) it's 75W90 NS GL-5 Gear Oil, and 75W90 GL-5 Gear Oil for the diff ( w/Limited Slip )

jeff

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1999 BMW R1100S
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post #95 of 116 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 02:40 PM
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This has all been very informative, but more so confusing.

So let me get this straight......I can use Redline 75W/90 NS in my Duetto trans, and Redline 75W/90 in my Duetto diff...... OR I can use Shell Spirax 80W/90 HD or Swepco 201 80W/90 in both my trans and diff in a '66 Duetto ?

As I have no idea what is in mt Duetto, I want to put fresh in both.

Thanks in advance.
So today I have had my gear oils changed. We installed Redline 75W/90 NS in my gearbox, and 75W/90 in my diff. I am glad to have this done as the gearbox oil was very dark and the diff oil didn't look too bad.

So far after driving home i am somewhat disappointed. The diff shows no change. Shifting seems to be a little smoother, except now i have the 2nd gear grind ??? What have I done ?

1966 Duetto
1976 Spider Veloce
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post #96 of 116 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 02:57 PM
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Assuming you used the correct NS in the gearbox and didn't mess up the two I'm not sure what to tell you beyond that these gearboxes can be quirky sometimes.

Lots of folks have had good luck with the 75W90NS in Alfa gearboxes. Personally I've never tried it in the Spider. I did use it in the Milano and did not like it, but my experience seems to be the outlier.

As for myself I switched to Swepco 201 for all the Alfa transmissions and differentials and have found it to work very well. But like I said, most other folks seem to like the Redline.

Maybe give it a few miles, see if it improves at all.

Tom

1991 Spider
1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)

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post #97 of 116 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 05:23 PM
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Tom,

Thanks for the reply.... but no I made sure the 2 NS bottles were marked 'trans' and the other 75W/90 bottles were marked 'diff'.

Remember this is a '66 Duetto .

Thanks,

Bob

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post #98 of 116 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 06:48 PM
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Bob
There shouldn't be any difference in a duetto or later 105 tranny. Well there are a few difference between a 1600/1750 and 2liter gearbox, but nothing is different concerning which oil to use. I've had a better gearbox after putting in redline but like Tom says there are a few outliers but I've heard nothing catastrophic from the outliers. When its cold there will definitely be a difference in the stiffness of the gearbox--the synthetic oil doesn't need to be warm to be thin and circulate and not be syrup. My understanding is the NS does not have the slippery additive (friction modifier) in it. Our transmissions don't need it or want it because of the type of alloy used for the synchronizers--they need friction to work properly. Like you, I used the the non-NS in my stock (non LSD) rearend . I don't think it would have mattered if I had used the NS in the rearend--but it does matter in the tranny. Our rearends have no clutches which are the "maybe" issue with NS vs non NS in the rearend. Richard says, and I'm sure he'll reprimand my post if I'm wrong, that the LSD clutches do need the NS and it makes sense to me that you want the clutches to catch in a LSD. Others say you need the non-NS in the rearend.

I did change out the tranny fluid in my 99 toyota tacoma 4 wheel drive manual 5 speed from toyota gearoil to redline ns. They have the same type or similar alloy alfa uses in the synchros. No grinding or crunching before or after the change but the shifting is smoother and on a cold morning the tranny shifts like its at full temp and been there a while.

There are many post on the BB with lots and lots of discussion (kind of like which engine oil should I use) and redline NS appears to be the best choice for the 105 trannys. Run it for a while and let the new oil replace the old oil on all the parts and see if it gets better. I've read suggestions to clean out the old oil with kerosene for a few mile before making the change but I haven't done that on an alfa (but I have done that on a really old chevy tranny years ago to flush out the rust from the dry gears)

Frank Livesay Huntsville, AL
Green Alfa - 68 Canadian 1750 Spider Veloce (driver)
White Alfa - 68 Euro 1750 GTV (needs a refresh)
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post #99 of 116 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 04:58 AM
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The weather in E TN is supposed to be good for a few days. I will run it a couple more times and report back.

My run home yesterday was only about 12 miles.

Thanks for your advise, it is appreciated.

1966 Duetto
1976 Spider Veloce
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post #100 of 116 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 07:57 AM
But Mad North-Northwest
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Ah, I thought you were talking about the '76. Does the '66 have the old style synchronizer rings? I forget when the cutoff was. If so, it uses a different gear oil spec.

Look in the manual: does it spec Spirax or Dentax for the gearbox?

Tom

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1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
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post #101 of 116 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 09:21 AM
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Yeah.... '66 been quoting the Duetto all along in the posts.

Early serial number 661013. Engine is 00536*05926

April/May 1966 production.

1966 Duetto
1976 Spider Veloce
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post #102 of 116 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 09:56 AM
But Mad North-Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcanuck View Post
Yeah.... '66 been quoting the Duetto all along in the posts.
Well it's not like I've been following you around in this thread and keeping track of your cars. I'm a busy man! Alfas to fix, espresso to make, etc.

I do not remember when the synchronizer switch was, so I could be completely off base here for your car. The older synchros spec'd GL1 Dentax, the newer ones spec'd GL5 Spirax.

For the new style synchros, Redline 75W90NS is the correct lube.

For the older ones, Napa sells a GL1 90-wt gear lube. Redline also says their MT-90 will work. No experience with either.

Someone will hopefully chime in with when the synchronizer change was, or check your owner's manual.

Tom

1991 Spider
1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
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post #103 of 116 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 10:40 AM
Richard Jemison
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Quote:
For the new style synchros, Redline 75W90NS is the correct lube.

For the older ones, Napa sells a GL1 90-wt gear lube. Redline also says their MT-90 will work. No experience with either.
Redline 75-90 NS is the correct lube for ANY BALK RING SYNCRO transmission. It is safe with any metal inc "yellow" metals.

Don`t even think of using the old lubes that basically caused the short life of Alfa syncros.

Richard Jemison
RJR Racing

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post #104 of 116 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 11:14 AM
But Mad North-Northwest
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This has nothing to do with the metals and everything to do with the friction characteristics. The older synchros don't work well with EP oils, and Alfa specifically said not to put EP in the early gearboxes. Redline 75W90NS is a GL5 EP oil.

Canuck, page from the 1966 manual is below. Looks like you've got one of the Dentax cars. Assuming it has the original synchronizers, the spec is GL1.

Richard seems to think the 75W90NS works well in these gearboxes. I've never tried it so I can't tell you if that's true or not. If things don't improve with the Redline, you may want to consider another option. Like I said, Napa still makes a GL1, and Redline says their MT-90 meets GL1 specs. Would suggest posting in the Spider or Giulia forums and see what other folks are using successfully. Lots of discussion here, for example:

The Dentax 90 issue


.
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Tom

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1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
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post #105 of 116 (permalink) Old 12-23-2016, 04:00 PM
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Tom,

Thank you again for your help...... after a 25 mile loop today thru the E TN hills there is no doubt that this Redline 75W/90 NS needs to be replaced with GL-1 90W asap. 2nd gear is screaming 'I don't like this $#!&.

Hopefully its a good cleaning agent because its going to be a 60 mile $37.00 gearbox flush......


BG

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1976 Spider Veloce
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