Vin's S4 Transmission Rebuild for Dummies - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #31 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 03:02 AM Thread Starter
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Note that there are 4 small Woodruff keys. 2 shown here and 2 on the opposite side. They are used to align the syncro hubs later on.
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Be careful as they easily fall out.
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Well, that is all of the parts off the shaft!!!!!!!!!

Disassembly done!

Nice!
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold
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post #32 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 04:13 AM
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as always Vin you get the BB oscar for your clear photo documentation!

Thanks for taking the trouble
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Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
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post #33 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 04:19 AM
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Outstanding, Vin. Thank you!!

Jim

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post #34 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 06:05 AM
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Wow, fantastic thread! Thank you!

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post #35 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 07:57 AM
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Awesome thread Vin. this will be very useful when i have to do mine. Cheers Neil.
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post #36 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 12:21 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to provide the steps and excellent photos Vin.

Edward
'88 Quad - "Claudia"
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post #37 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Inspection time!

Hello All,

Thanks for the kind words.

Ok, inspection time.

For the shift forks, you want to inspect the areas that ride on or touch the sides of the syncro sleeves. Basically looking for wear. There is a measurement that will be taken but that is together with the syncro sleeves a bit later. For my forks, the 1/2 and 3/4 were fine. The 5th/reverse had some issues though.

Here is the 5th/reverse that shows signs of burning and burs on the end that controls the reverse idler gear. Need a new fork here.
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Luckily, this fork is for sale new, reproduction.
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold
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post #38 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Syncro Sleeves (Sliders)

Here are all the syncro sleeves (some call them sliders) in car position. Left to Right, 4/3 2/1 R/5.
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We are looking for signs of wear in the groove (gap measurement coming up with forks) but more importantly, looking for wear on the inside. Here is the 2nd gear side. You can see that the tips are not sharp, but more blunt. This is the part that mates up with the dog teeth on the gears and these two parts are the grinding that you hear. If your dog teeth are worn, so should the corresponding syncro sleeve teeth.
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If your sleeves have never been changed, you can see what they looked like leaving the factory, even today. Since there is no syncro for reverse, the reverse side of the R/5 syncro sleeve has never been used. Here you can see the top was the reverse side. Nice and sharp! So nice!

If you want, you re use this sleeve by just turning it around since it was never used. I chose to use a new one as I didnt want any gap issues with the new fork.
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Here is a picture of the new syncro sleeves. They are not as sharp as the original, but others have confirmed that they work well.
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold
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post #39 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 01:08 PM
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I would think about getting another bellhousing. The sleeve that the throw out bearing slides on should not come out. You should not be able to pull it out by hand at all.
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I just got 2 more.
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post #40 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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Syncro Rings

Here are the syncro rings, again in car position. You are looking for wear. These should be rough to the touch like sandpaper. You can see that on mine, each one has shiny sections where it is smooth. Some even have grooves in them from the dog teeth

This is an easy decision, change them all!
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Here is the 2nd gear dog teeth and corresponding syncro ring
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And the groove in the syncro ring left by the dog teeth
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold
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post #41 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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Dog teeth gears

These are the big issue when it comes to grinding. You are looking for sharp teeth that will engage with the syncro sleeves. The more blunt, the more grinding.

Again, thanks to jcslocum for these clear examples of what to look for. Here we see blunt and sometimes even missing teeth.
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Here is 5th, where there is little wear. Nice and sharp
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Here is my 2nd gear, where we can see the blunt tips and burrs forming on the edges.
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold
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post #42 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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Gears

As for the gears themselves, you are looking for broken or chipped or missing pieces, signs of great wear. You must inspect the gears on both the mainshaft and layshaft.

Here is a picture of one of the gears. The dog teeth are pressed on, but you can see the helical cut gear.
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All of my gears, 1 through 5 were good, however the reverse showed some issues.

The teeth were not sharp and were blunt, especially on the idler. When looking at the reverse gear on the mainshaft and on the layshaft they too showed signs of wear. The transmission was not jumping out of reverse (a sign of worn teeth on the gears) but it was certainly well on its way.

Idler
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Mainshaft gear
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Layshaft gear
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold
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post #43 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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It was recommended to replace all 3 parts as a set so I contacted a local retired Alfa shop and he had a used set. They aren't new, but they are better than what I had and were a reasonable cost. I will pay special attention to touch another gear before I put it in reverse to avoid this from happening again.

Here is the used idler on the right and the original on the left. Not new, but better.
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Replacement Mainshaft gear
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Replacement layshaft gear
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold
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post #44 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Replacing Dog Teeth Gear

For all of the dog teeth gears that are worn, you will need to replace them. If you are lucky enough to have donor transmissions, these can be had from 4th and 5th gears as they are typically in great shape, being tall and sharp teeth. Centerline do have some beautiful brand new ones but a bit pricey for me. I ended up getting mine from APE (as well as a set of internals for the 1st Gear Fix coming up).

2nd Gear to start
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Remove snap ring as described before
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Remove the outer syncro ring, 2 quadrants, and 2 check straps. Put them in a baggie for later.
Note that the cut out of the dog teeth gear is directly in front of one of those, what I believe to be, oil galleys. Important to remember for re installing.
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I used the snap ring to press the gear out of the dog teeth. To re install the snap ring (you will get a lot of practice removing and replacing these large rings), start by installing the end with the ear into the cutout of the gear and feed into the groove found on the dog teeth.
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold
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Honey, this is the last thing I have to do, then I'm finished. It'll just be a minute.

Last edited by Vintre; 03-19-2017 at 06:17 PM.
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post #45 of 133 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Using the snap ring pliers, cover with your hand just in case, start to open the ring by pushing the ear into the cutout and work the snap ring around the groove until it is fully seated all the way around.
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Here is the snap ring installed on the gear without all of the syncro guts underneath.
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Back to the shop press. Place the 3" gear puller under the snap ring.
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Using the 1 1/4" socket to press the gear out is a perfect size
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold
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