S3 spider hard start - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

 3Likes
  • 3 Post By bayalfagtv6
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 396
S3 spider hard start

Hi all,
I have a 1985 spider graduate which now has a hard start problem.when the car is cold it always starts on the first crank. After the car has warmed up and been shut off and sits for a 10 or 15 minutes it takes quite a few attempts to start it, quite a bit of cranking. If it sits for a longer period it will start right up, probably because it has cooles down.once started the car runs excellent, good power, very smooth idle. I have been thru Greg Gordon's trouble shooting guide at his web site and all sensors check good. I recently had the injectors flow checks done and new pressure regulator installed, problem is still there. Plugs look good, light gray deposit. New fuel filter and gas line checked, no air leaks.
It's coming due soon for a California smog check, the last time it had one it barely passed after 2 fails and a new catalytic converter. I'm stumped, I'm starting to think L Jetronic ECU. One other odd circumstance, when it goes to the hard start syndrome, when turning the key to the start position, it does not seem to be giving me spark, once the key is released to the run position it will fire.
Any help is appreciated, the car has 140,000 miles but had a major rebuild about 15 years ago. I'm pretty positive compression is good.
bayalfagtv6 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 06:41 PM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberModerator
 
ghnl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mebane, NC
Posts: 14,494
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayalfagtv6 View Post
One other odd circumstance, when it goes to the hard start syndrome, when turning the key to the start position, it does not seem to be giving me spark, once the key is released to the run position it will fire.
Connect a voltmeter to the battery. With everything off, a fully charged battery should show 12.6V. 12.3V is ~ 1/2 charged.

Next see what it reads during cranking. Voltage must remain above ~ 10.5V for the computers to power up. It can sound like it is cranking over fine but if the battery is a little weak or an electrical connection is iffy then system voltage can drop below the computer's threshold. Perhaps when it is hot the starter is drawing just a little more power?

If it fails the cranking voltage test, disconnect the battery, clean all the battery to starter connections and have the battery charged. Make sure that the ground connections are clean & tight, too.

- - Eric
don't read this
~ 1984 Spider Veloce ~
- -~ 1981 GTV-6 ~
Mebane, North Carolina


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- fuel injector cleaning
ghnl is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 396
Thanks ghnl, that seems to have done the trick, new battery and no starting problems. My next concern is the CA smog check. Any advice besides an Italian tune up?
bayalfagtv6 is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 04:32 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
rogerspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: OC CA USA
Posts: 3,363
an s-3 like yours should pass smog ez with a new converter, so have had the valve clearances checked stone cold?

current:
83 Spider Veloce
ex:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

solve problems, learn something new!
rogerspeed is online now  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 06:19 PM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberModerator
 
ghnl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mebane, NC
Posts: 14,494
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayalfagtv6 View Post
Thanks ghnl, that seems to have done the trick, new battery and no starting problems. My next concern is the CA smog check. Any advice besides an Italian tune up?
How old is the O2 sensor? They don't last forever, 60,000 miles is a good change interval.

- - Eric
don't read this
~ 1984 Spider Veloce ~
- -~ 1981 GTV-6 ~
Mebane, North Carolina


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- fuel injector cleaning
ghnl is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 396
I'll check the valves and timing marks while I'm in there, 02 sensor isn't that old, but I may change anyway. I still very rarely get a slight hesitation when shifting gears, usually after a hill climb or flat out pedal to the metal, seems rich. Is there some way to lean it out a bit?
bayalfagtv6 is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 09:05 AM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
John533i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 911
I had the same problems as in your original post. The usual sensors ohmed out well, so I started replacing fuel injection parts, starting with my rotting hoses and ending with new pumps and reman'd fuel injectors. Everything pointed towards the TTS, and finally I bit the bullet and bought one from Vick's Auto, which is really a Fiat part, and my warm/hot start went away, along with some other issues that had cropped up. It was the TTS the whole time, even though it tested OK.

I'm going to try to get ahold of a known good proper TTS, as it seems to run rich at times, like yours. You can't see it on the spark plugs, though, which is weird.

86 spider Veloce
74 TR6
John533i is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 396
Thanks John533i, mine is the original and I may change it. I'm still stumped cause something just isn't quite right. If you can find a good price on one let me know. They're kinda pricey.
bayalfagtv6 is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 03:09 PM
Registered User
 
spiderserie4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cologne, Germany
Posts: 5,395
"when the car is cold it always starts on the first crank."

I'd have thought with a bad TTS, you'd have real hard cold starts, because a bad TTS and you get no CSI squirting.

....no?

Dom - Alfa Spider 1990 S4 - formerly: Alfa 101 Sprint, 2600 Sprint, Montreal - family classics: Jensen Interceptor II, '58 Hooper RR Silver Cloud I, Shadow II, '60 Corvette.
spiderserie4 is online now  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 396
Good point spiderserie4, so will the csi squirt even when the car is warmed up? I have removed it on a warm engine and it does not squirt. Is this a sign the TTS is functioning properly?
bayalfagtv6 is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 396
I guess I don't have to worry about CA smog check, took it yesterday and passed with flying colors. I changed tho 02 sensor before the check. Emissions were way below average and it's running fantastic.
ghnl, spiderserie4 and John533i like this.
bayalfagtv6 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome