I am torn between my ultra stiffly sprung suspension currently on my Berlina and returning to a tall soft stock suspension.
The car has some yellow springs from an unknown source that are very short and very stiff. It also has Bilstein shocks. This was a great set up for track use. The car even had 205/60-14 Yokohama 008's on it when I got it.
But now I have restored the car to be more for street use. I have always loved the low look, but I recently acquired some factory alloy option wheels (Cromodora CD22) which are 5.5" x 14". The thought is to put the Vredestein tires in a 165HR-14 and return the car to the stock ride height. This should improve the heavy steering at parking speeds.
I changed the front springs to some unknown silver GTV springs. The car rides a little softer, still handles OK, but it is still sitting low.
Does anyone have some stock Berlina springs for sale?
Berlina springs are hard to find, as pretty much no one saved them.
A friend has a 74 Berlina that someone put stock Spider springs in, and it sits a bit lower, but basically seems fine and isn't a ground scraper. So maybe that's an option?
I don't have my parts books handy, but I doubt it. They're probably close, but I would expect Berlina springs to be longer, especially in back, and have a higher spring rate due to more weight to support.
Virtually any 105/115 spring will physically fit any 105/115 car, but whether it's the right length and rate is a different matter.
I have quite a collection of Alfa springs. Unfortunately, I don't really know what I have. I would like to have them tested in a spring dyno, but the numbers won't mean anything unless I have some baseline information.
Where would I find the stock spring rates and lengths for the various 105 models? I would like to put together a table of the stock springs as well as a listing of the various aftermarket springs.
Re-orginals told me they had a manufacturer in Italy I believe that did as-original springs. They never called me back with a price...I followed up once but still haven't heard back. AR Ricambi also indicated that they had a close match but were a little sketchy on the specs.
A relative of mine used to have a specialist suspension shop in Berkeley and has spec'd and ordered a fair number of custom springs for Alfa's, including several Berlina's. I'm planning to have him help me put together an order for my Berlina and will post the results.
For what it's worth, he told me the Super spings were a good substitute.
Just the facts, ma'am. I got out my Technical Characteristics for the Giulia TI, Giulia Super, and US 2000 Berlina. Note that in some cases, there are three or more variations of a spring specified for one model, all slightly different. So these are good numbers, but there are others too for the same models, based on different suppliers, I guess. The venerable pre- and post-lunch production variations.
Length in inches, force in pounds.
Giulia TI
F 12.2 free, 7.8 loaded at 2976 lbs
R 18.25 free, 9.9 loaded at 753 lbs
Giulia Super
F 12.31 free, 7.87 loaded at 2100 lbs
R 17.7 free, 10 loaded at 710 lbs
US 2000 Berlina
RF 13.5 free, 8.4 loaded at 1988 lbs
LF 13.9 free, 8.4 loaded at 2138 lbs
R 18.3 free, 9.9 loaded at 769 lbs
Note also that the load varies upward from the numbers I've given. It's complicated.
Thanks for the info. Great baseline information. When I looked up the springs in the parts catalog, they show three different springs. It looks like there is a standard, an option and a towing spring! I didn't know the there was a trailer hitch for the Berlina.
I wonder how the loaded weights were chosen. It appears that the loaded length would be the length of the spring as installed and the load would be the geometric load. I recall a thread stating that the mechanical leverage at the spring is 3 times the actual weight at the individual wheel (for the fronts).
Does anyone know why the left front spring would be longer than the right? Isn't the spring pan different left to right as well? What's the point? More ground clearance on one side?
I will see if I can find someone local with a spring dyno so that I can measure all of the various springs I have.
I've got a set of 2000 Berlina original springs that I just pulled out of a parts car. I didn't get to drive the car before I stripped it, but the springs look to be ok.
You're welcome to them for a modest price, but shipping might be an issue from Australia!
If you get the original springs specs I'm sure any spring company in the US could make them for you.
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'74 GTV 2000 - LeMans Blue
'70 1750 Berlina - Biancospino. Project street and occassional track car
'74 2000 Berlina - parts car
'99 Seat Cordoba - daily driver
'95 Peugeot 306 S16 - gone, but not forgotten
I didn't look whether Berlinas had different spring pans on the L an R front, but I'd guess so. I was surprised at the different spring rates too. The other cars have same front springs on both sides.
The load range for each was like 2976-3100 lbs. I listed the lowest number.
I too have heard the leverage on the front is 3:1; on the rear it's given as 1:1. So if you cut .5" off your front spring you should get a 1.5" drop. Do the same at the rear and get a .5" drop. This ignores any change in spring rate from the simple act of cutting the spring, which comes into it too. (I'm no engineer though.)
These scans are not great, but you can see there are three different springs listed. The first appears to be the standard, the second has a footnote that says "for trailer hauling", and the third is called out as optional.
Also interesting to see that there are four different thickness of spacers, 105.00.25.534.00 which are footnoted "as required". I can't imagine that they installed the springs, measured the ride height and then changed out the spacers "as required".
Does anyone have part no. 105.14.25.509.00, "Sheath" still on their springs?
I was told the added spring length was to account for driver weight. I was also told it's not uncommon to use the same spring for both sides and shim up the drivers side.
Thanks Andrew for the tech data, that's great. Based on that info the Berlina and Super both have a rear spring rate of about 90 #/in. On the fronts the Super is stiffer at about 460 to the Berlina 390 #/in. I've heard the 3:1 (dis)advantage as well and if you take the front loads divide by 3 and add that to the rear loads you end up with about 3000#, or total car weight (for Berlina).
My 74 GTV's original springs, which I removed when I installed Rugh springs, still have the sheaths on them. Dunno on my Super, but I'd guess so, as I'd be willing to wager the rear susp was never touched before my ownership.
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