Head gasket again

[Richard2]

I've had this Berlina over a year now, and it's only been on the road for the 1600 mile drive home. Since then it's been one problem after another. Some due to the condition of the car and some due to my inexperience with the 4 cyl cars.

It was losing water out the exhaust, so I took the head off to replace the gasket, had the valves done and new seals. When it was first put back on, there was no water leak, but the car wouldn't idle well, and was very hard to start. I ended up rebuilding the carbs which were very badly plugged. Now I've got water out the exhaust again. IE: water vapor.

I suspect the problem was not retorquing the head after a warm up. I've got the head off again and can't see any damage to the gasket or the "O" rings. I had sealed the 2 rear oil holes as suggested. I plan on using a new head gasket and new "O" rings.

If I understand the procedure correctly, the head is installed and torqued. It is started up and warmed up and retorqued hot. Then it is run for 500 miles and retorqued cold.

I took the insurance off of it some time ago until I got it running right. After I install the head this time, I'm going to spend some time adjusting the carbs. For me this will probably require several sessions of warming it up and adjusting, several cycles over a couple of days. The question is how should I handle the retorques in this situation?

[papajam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard2 Now I've got water out the exhaust again. IE: water vapor.

[Richard2]

I won't be doing the 500 miles for some time after the cold retorque, with several warmups to adjust the idle in between. Should I just wait for the 500 miles, or do it early.

[orden]

I would not get too hung up about the retorque. Spotless head /gasket surfaces, clean oiled threads, good torque wrench and slowly slowly. get the engine up to temp and run it for some time.

[Andrew]

Tom Sahines sent me a good retorque procedure that requires just one heat cycle. I have it at work and can post it Tuesday.

Andrew

[Richard2]

I've got the head back on, and everything hooked back up. The carbs are set with butterflys closed plus one turn on the idle screw. The air adjustment screws are out 3/4 turn. It's all ready to startup. The wise thing to do would be to wait until Tues, Andrew, but there's still this afternoon and all day tomorrow. That's a long time to wait

[Richard2]

Sorry, Andrew, I couldn't wait.

I pumped the pedal 8 times (10 or more is normal for this car) and it started on the 1st try. I kept it running, feathering the gas until it warmed up. It wouldn't idle and stalled. I gave it another Full turn on the Idle screw and started it again. This time it idled at about 800 rpm, so I started adjusting the air screws and worked the idle screw out as the idle increase. At first there was a lot of poping. I got almost all of that out. and a decent idle at 800, but it still idles alittle rough.

At first there was a lot of white smoke which I expected from the coolant leak and residual in the exhaust system. After running it for an hour and 15 minutes, I expected it to be completely gone. It was greatly reduced, but not gone. This concerns me.

Tomorrow I'll adjust the Butterfly valve hex screw to see if I can get it a little better.

I did the hot torque.
Concerning the final cold torque, the operators manual I have say it should be 58, same as the 1st cold torque. Papajam says 65#. What's right?

[orden]

63 is as high as I have been game to go, but Ive never used new nuts!

[papajam]

An hour and 15 minutes? That would, to me, be a record. But if the engine was only idling the whole time, I could see it.
Alfa changed the head torque procedure a number of times over the years. The latest version, that I have, can be found in this thread.

[Richard2]

Ok, thanks Papajam. When you retorque every year, do you loosen off each nut in turn a quarter turn then retighten?

[Richard2]

Finally some good news. The first good news since I've owned it.

Before going out to breakfast this morning, I started up the Berlina briefly to see how it would start. 4 pumps on the gas, foot off the pedal and feeding it slowly as I turned the key. To my surprise it started immediately. I feathered the gas to keep it going and watched the temp guage. When it reached 100, it idled!! without help from the gas pedal!! I guess the carb rebuild really paid off.

I'm still concerned about the white smoke out the exhaust and will watch it as I make further carb adjustments today to try for a smoother idle.

[Ish-Man]

Why is it that the smaller bore motors have lower torque specs for the head bolts?

I've got 10,000 km on my little 1400 big bore, and while I don't have the specs in front of me, my memory is they are quite a bit lower.

And after the torque/retorque/retorque routine, I've just checked the torque values every month or so, and when one has loosened a bit, just clamped it down... kind of a by the feel approach. I do follow the bolt sequence pattern. It seems a couple of the cylinder locations closer to the front require some retorquing more than the others.

But no problems.

[Richard2]

I finished the carb adjustment and got the idle fairly smooth.

White smoke continued, so I pulled the plugs to look for color differences. Steam is coming out of #3 cylinder. Can this be anything else other than a cracked head?

I think I'll paint this Berlina yellow.

[Giorgio68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard2 I finished the carb adjustment and got the idle fairly smooth. White smoke continued, so I pulled the plugs to look for color differences. Steam is coming out of #3 cylinder. Can this be anything else other than a cracked head? I think I'll paint this Berlina yellow.

[180OUT]

Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by Richard2 I finished the carb adjustment and got the idle fairly smooth. White smoke continued, so I pulled the plugs to look for color differences. Steam is coming out of #3 cylinder. Can this be anything else other than a cracked head? I think I'll paint this Berlina yellow.