backseat shoulder belts for Berlina?

sutera_ci · #1 (**permalink**) 09-19-2005, 11:15 PM

Does anyone know if this is possible without compromising integrity of the body structure? I know that someone recently asked the alfabb about belts for backseat of a 2000 GTV; I agreed with one message stating that the GTV really wasn't meant to tote 4. However, the Berlina works well for this. The current lap belts are in terrific shape. But I would like to add shoulder supplements (this Berlina has them in front). Will this be bad for the C pillar?

hardtop · #2 (**permalink**) 09-20-2005, 06:28 AM

When I had shoulder belts put in the back of my 72 Berlina, the mechanic would not mount them directly to any of the sheet metal. He drilled through the rear package shelf and backed it with several 4 inch shoulder washers. He secured the belt to that. It works fine for my children back there. I am not sure it would stand up to the weight of an adult.

An alternative I am considering is welding or bolting a threaded mounting plate to the floor of the trunk, and running the belt through a slot cut in the package shelf.

-Jim

sutera_ci · #3 (**permalink**) 09-20-2005, 07:51 AM

Jim, I really appreciate you sharing your experiences. This helps a lot. Thank you very much.
-Joe

**Bill S** · #4 (**permalink**) 09-21-2005, 07:31 AM

Jim,
My understanding is that it's a bad idea to have a single anchor point for a shoulder belt much lower than the shoulder. In a Spider, at least, this could lead to a broken back in an accident. Probably not much of an issue in a sedan with all that metal just behind the seat. I would still reinforce the slot in the package shelf if you decide to do that and be sure there is some means of preventing wear (or cutting) of the belt as it slides through the slot. This is a great question and I hope we get more input on it. I'll check out the GTV thread you mentioned, Joe. Jim, would you mind measuring the distance from the corner and back of the seat that your mechanic placed the anchor bolt? I would guess as close to the corner as he could get the 4" washer. I'm currently parting out a 74 Berlina and I'll check under the headliner to see whats in the C pillar. By the time I get my 69 project on the road my kids will be out of their booster seats so I'd like to do something similar.

Bill Sinclair
67 Duetto
69 Berlina project

hardtop · #5 (**permalink**) 09-21-2005, 07:28 PM

Good point Bill. I had not thought it all the way through. All I know is I want an installation that is cleaner than is in the car now.

I'll take some measurements and post them for you. I'll try to get a picture of the mount also.

hardtop · #6 (**permalink**) 09-26-2005, 03:49 PM

I fianlly got to measure and photograph the seat belt mounts in the Berlina. Turns out the washers are only 2.5", not 4".

They are indeed mounted as close as possible to the corner. Here are pictures of the mount from above and below.

**Bill S** · #7 (**permalink**) 09-26-2005, 04:05 PM

Thanks Jim,

One more question. Do these belts somehow work with a retractor or do the lap and shoulder belts adjust seperately (manually)? I appreciate your input as I'll prbably go this route.

Bill

hardtop · #8 (**permalink**) 09-26-2005, 04:43 PM

The shoulder belt is actually a lap belt. Both lap and shoulder adjust manually. An advantage to this over retractable belts is I can get them really tight, so the kids can't reach each other in the back seat

**sprintgtc** · #9 (**permalink**) 09-26-2005, 04:45 PM

I have new, non retracting belts in the back seat of my Super. Attachment is similar to Jim's Berlina. They are made by Securon (sp?) and came from Highwood in the UK. I agree that retracting ones would be difficult to engineer and make safe. Mine came with black plastic covers for the brackets on the parcel shelf. They adjust at the waist and look surprisingly stock installed. I wish I had a better picture:

**rogerspeed** · #10 (**permalink**) 09-26-2005, 08:29 PM

So I was changing some rear shocks today, thinking about this thread, both my 71 & 73 have factory anchorages through the rear parcel shelf for shoulder belts. The anchorages are heavy nuts welded to very heavy stamped reinforcements under the parcel shelf inside the trunk, they are visable from inside the trunk. On a side note, when I removed the rear parcel shelf upholstery panel there was a plastic radio speaker blank-off plate underneath!

**rogerspeed** · #11 (**permalink**) 09-26-2005, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtop

I fianlly got to measure and photograph the seat belt mounts in the Berlina. Turns out the washers are only 2.5", not 4".

They are indeed mounted as close as possible to the corner. Here are pictures of the mount from above and below.

sutera_ci · #12 (**permalink**) 09-26-2005, 09:22 PM

thanks Roger. In fact thanks everyone on this post! Mike, Santino and Nick at Barber Shop Alfa mentioned that the '72 Berlina should have the anchorage standard. We're going to try to work with this to place the belts in for my kids (Giulia, 10, and Gabriella, 8 -- I still don't know why my wife didn't like the name Bertone for a baby girl)...

alfa2go · #13 (**permalink**) 04-03-2006, 10:05 PM

I would like to go the way of Mike(sprintgtc) with non-retractable type lap & diagonal belts, but dont see anything resembling an anchor point in my 65 Super. A few of the pics have gone missing in this thread.

Can anyone help me with some shots of the anchor points?

**sprintgtc** · #14 (**permalink**) 04-06-2006, 02:08 PM

Hi Derek,
From memory, there is a square hole on each side in the stamped metal structure of the parcel shelf that are just the right size to allow the threads of a seatbelt bolt through. I used the big washers that came with the kit. Maybe not safe by modern standards, but much better than a lap belt.