Yet another gark green Giulia Super in Berkeley - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
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Yet another dark green Giulia Super in Berkeley

One thing to note - tried to edit the title of this thread but wasn't able to. Stuck w/ "gark green". This is not an official Alfa color and is not recognized by the international federation of strangely named sport sedan finishes as such. My apologies for what will be a long lasting typo...

--------------------------------

Picked up a nice driver '67 Giulia Super from a nice guy down in Santa Cruz. It has a bit more rust than a pedigreed California car but the underside is pretty solid.

This is my 17th Alfa (I had a 1300 Super as a daily driver from 2002-'06) and will be the family truckster for rallys and events. I have a Junior Zagato 1300, but it's just too perfect to track and can't haul much more than myself and a handful of my smaller friends ;^)

The car comes with a Euro installed two liter with a rebuilt transmission and an up-rated suspension (shankle swaybar/springs, Koni yellows). I'm going to go through the brakes and bushings over the next few months and plan to drive the car - maybe do a bit of body work myself. I'm not in any rush to address the rust spots. It's a decent looking car and has some pretty cool looking Corbeau racing seats.

This is the first Alfa I've owned where I'm not inheriting wiring issues. It doesn't seem to blow any fuses and all the lights and gauges work perfectly. We'll see how long that lasts.

My plan is to get this car on the track - just for fun not for competition - and to go back to my old role of rescue car in various California car rallies.

I'll post some photos of the car and of the work I'm doing as I go.

cheers,
Brian
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Brian OKelley
'69 Junior Z (AR1800015)
very shiny new & roadworthy
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'67 Giulia '2000' Super

Last edited by braino; 05-10-2017 at 10:49 AM.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 09:20 PM
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Congrats Brian,
I think I took a look at the car when it was for sale in San Jose late last year. It had some deep bucket seats that were very comfortable but no back seat and I was looking for more of a stock config.

Kurt
69 GTV 1750
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-23-2017, 12:12 PM
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Brian, send me the VIN etc if you haven't. Thanks
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
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teardown week

I've moved the Giulia into the shop to start the restoration process.

I'm not going down to bare metal with this one right now. I've acquired all the necessary suspension renewables (ball joints, bushings, etc) and have started disassembling the front suspension. The geometry of the passenger side was way off. The top control arm inner bushing was completely fried. The arm was pushed back off center and rubbing against the body. The upper/lower ball joints on both sides are about as loose as I've ever felt.

I've already sourced rotors for the stock spindles but I'm debating if I shouldn't upgrade the front brakes to later 105/115. I've been eyeing the Wilwood kit. I've been quite happy with the performance of the brakes on my 1300 Zagato but with the additional weight and 2ltr motor in this super I'm wondering if bigger brakes wouldn't be a smart move. I'm planning to use this car on the track eventually so that is a consideration as well. I'd be curious to here more evidence based insights on this one.

Suspension work is tricky in the early hours. I'm trying to make as little noise as possible to avoid waking the family so I haven't yet separated any ball joints or tie rod ends. Removing the springs generated a few loud pops and thunks but no one stirred, thankfully.

The steering is very loose so I'm replacing all of the ends and might rebuild the box. The idler arm seems to be pretty tight - from the looks of it it might have been replaced at some point. Next on the list is pulling the Webers and exhaust headers. From what I can see, there's no way that I'll be able to remove the steering box without removing the exhaust. I'm just going to cut the very rusty front pipe and avoid trying to unbolt the equally rusty front-pipe to manifold nuts (one of my least favorite jobs on any Alfa).

Overall I haven't experienced any serious disappointments yet. This came apart pretty easily and I've been pleased with some of the bits and pieces I'm inheriting from previous owners - newer Koni yellows, a 27mm front sway bar, newer front calipers, etc.

Another question I have for folks: When dropping the diff, what's the smartest sequence for removal? Trailing arms, triangle then drive shaft? Anyone have any experience? I've installed diffs but never removed them.

The driveshaft is going to get renewed, too. The car has a lot of vibration between 25-45mph. Probably a combination of joints and center carrier. Maybe the doughnut is fried as well.

I can already tell that the difference is going to be huge after this work is complete. Clearly no one has ever done this level of work on the suspension. Hopefully I can get through all of this work before the middle of the summer!

cheers,
Brian
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Brian OKelley
'69 Junior Z (AR1800015)
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'67 Giulia '2000' Super
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-28-2017, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Making progress. I'm getting late 105/115 spindles, hubs and backing plates from Larry Jr beginning of next week and the corresponding calipers and rotors just arrived. I'll be under the car this weekend to pull the master cylinder for sleeving and the steering box (to get access to the hard lines and to replace the lower seal).

The inner control arm bushings were completely fried - flopping in all directions. Between those and the loose tie rod ends I'm expecting a pretty radical transformation in handling.

I'll post some photos this weekend.

Brian OKelley
'69 Junior Z (AR1800015)
very shiny new & roadworthy
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'67 Giulia '2000' Super
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-29-2017, 04:40 AM
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Be sure to offer your old parts here at discounted prices!
Some owners still believe the standard parts work well....

'64 Guilia Spider
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Conservatives-we work hard, so you don't have to !
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2017, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
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Appreciate the comment. I have another 105 that'll be remaining stock. The way this Giulia will be driven (rallies, track events, kid hauling), the bigger brakes will be more than justified.

Spares will come in handy down the road no doubt (one of my strategies in owning two early 105 cars) and/or will go to the next owner of the car whoever that may be...

Brian OKelley
'69 Junior Z (AR1800015)
very shiny new & roadworthy
----------
'67 Giulia '2000' Super
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-01-2017, 05:18 AM
I recently purchased the wilwood kit from centerline. Haven't had it out on the road yet but very impressed with the package.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-08-2017, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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going deep

As is the process of refurbishment, I'm continually discovering details that I'm going to need to deal with before I can get this car back on the road.

I've removed, inspected cleaned and repainted all of the hard brake lines. Desipite some surface rust, they all cleaned up very well. I sent the master off for SS re-sleeving last week.

The steering box was absolutely filthy. It was covered in 1/8" of grease/dirt and had leaked oil all over the arm and tie rod ends. I think that much of the greasy dirt inside of the engine bay can be sourced back to the box as well. It cleaned up reasonably well, but I uncovered a crack at the top of the box just under the cover plate. I just talked to Larry Jr. - he's going to rebuild this unit for me. The steering was pretty loose before I started this work - between replacing the tie rod ends and installing a rebuilt box there will be some serious improvement.

The engine bay itself is mostly clean at this point. I scrubbed off all of the rust/scale and loose paint in the area of the brake reservoir leak. The metal itself is in great shape. I'm going to tape it off and spray it satin black for now.

On the passenger side, I realized that someone had replaced the fuse box with some generic aftermarket unit. Not an entirely low quality piece but I am going to replace it with a new unit that I also ordered last week. I'll need to sort out the wiring at the same time - some PO cut off all of the wire-ends. The existing fuse box just takes loose wired that are held down with screws. Not awesome. It'll be fun work though.

The passenger side of the engine bay seems to have fared better overall when compared to the driver's side. There's a nice patina but no rust of any kind.

I spent a couple of mornings in the fender wells with a scrub brush. It's clean enough now. I hit a couple of bare patches with clear POR 15 as a protective measure. Once again, nothing major. I'm not going to go crazy with undercoating or whatever. There's enough paint on things that it looks decent and has enough protection from the East Bay climate.

cheers,
Brian
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Brian OKelley
'69 Junior Z (AR1800015)
very shiny new & roadworthy
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'67 Giulia '2000' Super
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-12-2017, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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engine bay cleaned and painted

I know it's a little strange to only have one side of an engine bay painted black but it suits the needs of the "quick refresh" strategy I am taking on this car. At some point down the road when I'm desperate for a huge project, and have a bigger workshop, I'll pull the motor, glass, trim, do whatever body repair is necessary and have the car painted. This is maybe on the 3-5 year timeframe depending on the above. Until then this car is going to be about functionality and I'm going to enjoy having a patina'd driver. There aren't too many people in this country who have the pleasure of driving a Giulia Super to the limit with nary a regard to paint chips, mud, or whotnot. Having had a Super as a daily driver for a number of years I know how quickly degradation occurs...

I re-jetted this nice pair of 40 DCOE 27's I picked up last month - going for the bigger jets first. I can dial it back if necessary. The new chokes I got from Pierce appear to have been newly machined. The numbers are scratched on, not stamped like the original chokes I have lying around.

I started refitting the hard lines - waiting for the re-sleeved master to come back from the shop. Interestingly, these cars do not have a proportioning valve in the back. There's very little to the hydraulic system.

I found an random fluid reservoir that was in a box of Giulietta parts (not sure how it got there). The bracket on this unit is in great shape, thankfully. The one that came with the car is completely covered in rust, scale and filth. I'll be happy to not have to clean it up. There are plenty of other bits that will need to be dealt with - one less to worry about...

Heading to APE on Tuesday to pick up the late 105 spindle assemblies. Larry Jr tells me that they're in great shape and will need little attention other than replacing the rotors. Very cool.

cheers,
Brian
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Brian OKelley
'69 Junior Z (AR1800015)
very shiny new & roadworthy
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'67 Giulia '2000' Super

Last edited by braino; 05-12-2017 at 02:41 PM.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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scraping through the muck

Stole a morning to head to APE. Picked up the new spindles. Very nice, complete assemblies. Per 101/105guy's comment, Larry Jr wants my old 105 spindles back to make drop spindles for another customer.

Meanwhile, I've dropped the rear-end and pulled the trailing arms. It's not at all surprising to see the condition of the bushings - the steel centers are nearly torn out of the rubber. I could feel (hear) it whenever I drove the car hard. I have brand new replacements ready to install.

I spent some time over lunch scraping through the 1/2 inch or so of greasy mud - looks like it was coming from the front seal. I'm about 80% of the way there in the cleaning process. I'll have to get back to it later.

Looks like there's plenty of meat on the parking brake shoes. I'm going to leave them as they are for now. The rotors came off without any issues. Rear calipers look really good. Maybe a recent replacement?

Unlike the Zagato, I get the feeling that these posts are "same-ol' same ol'". There are a lot of high caliber Super restorations on this channel - this is not one of them. I hope I'm not boring folks with my documenting this process! It'll mean more in 4 or 5 years when I get to actually restoring this car.

cheers,
Brian
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Brian OKelley
'69 Junior Z (AR1800015)
very shiny new & roadworthy
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 06:12 PM
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I'm debating if I shouldn't upgrade the front brakes to later 105/115. I've been eyeing the Wilwood kit. I've been quite happy with the performance of the brakes on my 1300 Zagato but with the additional weight and 2ltr motor in this super I'm wondering if bigger brakes wouldn't be a smart move. I'm planning to use this car on the track eventually so that is a consideration as well. I'd be curious to here more evidence based insights on this one.

The weight differential between a 1.3 and 2.0 Alfa nord motor is so modest that you really don't need to worry about it. Further, I have fast 2 liter in my Super which has the smaller front brake calipers. I can attest that they work quite well. When driving at speed they will just about stand the car on its nose when needed with little drama or fade . . . and do it again and again. Still, bigger brakes are attractive if only for street cred. . . If I were upgrading, I think I'd fit Brembo calipers from a Milano (they'll bolt on to your 1.3 spindles) or, barring that, the Wilwood kit which is pretty cool.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series

Last edited by 180OUT; 05-18-2017 at 09:02 AM.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-17-2017, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for posting.

Indeed, I own a 1.3, there's a 1750 in the Zagato and I've had a number of two liters - I'd have a hard time telling them apart if I didn't know the various symbols on cylinder heads, etc. You're right that the weight difference must be pretty marginal.

In my experiences driving my Junior Zagato hard on various rallies on Northern California mountain roads, after driving four or five hours of narrow mountain twisties, the small brakes seem just adequate on the Z.

Talk about weight differences, there's a significant weight different between the Zagato and the Giulia. It's this one that sparked my interest in the later brakes. I'm completely replacing everything anyway so why not go for a performance enhancement that has pretty much zero impact on the stock appearance of the car and doesn't really cost anything extra. Seems like a win-win.

I agree about the Wilwood kit. It looks really cool - just a bit beyond my current budget.

cheers,
Brian

Brian OKelley
'69 Junior Z (AR1800015)
very shiny new & roadworthy
----------
'67 Giulia '2000' Super

Last edited by braino; 05-17-2017 at 08:04 PM.
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-22-2017, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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I pulled out the trunion this morning. The upper bushings look fresh and are not cracked at all. Similar to images I've seen from other BB'rs, the alignment marks are off about 3 or 4mm.

I have replacement bushings and housings and was going to have them pressed on. Anyone have any opinion about whether or not I should use them or just leave what's there?

I have a set of Koni reds and the set of Yellows that were on the car. Wondering if I shouldn't do the whole yellow in front, red in back. I set a front yellow to fully stiff - that is seriously stiff. I could barely budge it.

I installed a new fuse box over the weekend. Added wire-ends to all of the wires after cleaning and organizing a bit. Some previous owner had replaced the original box and bracket with an aftermarket one, cutting off all of the original wire-ends and making a tangled mess of the harness. I'll post some photos tomorrow - the new box looks great and it was good to go through everything. The diagram I was using seemed to be about 85% correct but I don't think anything will be substantially screwed up might just have to switch a few things around.

Brian OKelley
'69 Junior Z (AR1800015)
very shiny new & roadworthy
----------
'67 Giulia '2000' Super
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-22-2017, 03:30 PM
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I have a set of Koni reds and the set of Yellows that were on the car. Wondering if I shouldn't do the whole yellow in front, red in back. I set a front yellow to fully stiff - that is seriously stiff. I could barely budge it.
Contrary to "received wisdom" I find that Koni yellows combined with a stock suspension and decent tires (185x65x15 H rated Kumho HK16 for those who are interested) make for a very nice suspension setup on a Super. Mine are installed full soft front and back and and, IMHO, aren't harsh in daily driving. In spirited driving the yellow Koni's work so well that, except for a 27mm front sway-bar, and lowering the front ride-height a bit, I've shelved plans to make further suspension upgrades. Recently, my friend Bob drove on our spring tour through the Texas Hill Country back roads. Bob, who has many years of Alfa racing experience, was very complimentary about how the little Super worked when driven fast. Coming from Bob, that was high praise indeed. In thinking about all this stuff, I've come to the conclusion that what I want is a fast street-car rather than a race or track-day car that can be driven on the street. This combination is not the fastest, but it nonetheless makes for a very satisfying ride.
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Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series

Last edited by 180OUT; 05-22-2017 at 04:10 PM.
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