3 point seat belt in Giulia TI? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 07:06 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
Peter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Austin, TX , USA
Posts: 3,850
Garage
3 point seat belt in Giulia TI?

I would like to add three point seat belts to my 65 TI. I think I read that 67's and onward have an attachment point up the b-pillar, but I can't seem to find one on my 65. Anyone dealt with this?

Peter

Currently: '65 Giulia TI

Previously:
'76 Alfasud Ti/'75 GT Junior/'87 Alfa 33
'91 Alfa 75/'95 Alfa 164/'79 Alfa Spider '69 Euro 1750 GTV, '67 Duetto, '84 Spider Veloce
'91 164L
Peter is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 07:32 AM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Scalino1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Holland
Posts: 100
Garage
My '67 Ti has three points installed, it was that way when I bought it so I don't have any personal experience. I attached a photo of where it's located, maybe it helps.
Attached Images
 

Tim
Scalino1300 is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 09:32 AM
Registered User
 
Alleggerita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BC
Posts: 1,959
65 TI does not have a mounting point for 3-point.

You can install one by dimpling the B-pillar and drilling through and putting a bolt in.

I'll try to put a picture up.

Since then I have installed a 5-point harness ... so I no longer need the 3-point mount.
Alleggerita is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 09:45 AM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberSuper Moderator
 
Andrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 18,161
My second 65 TI, a Euro-market car, had harness bolts added on the pillar as described above. Ideally you'd weld in a tube or threaded nutplate. In my car they just crushed the B-pillar some, put a very thin nut on the outside. It worked, probably compromised strength a bit.

Andrew
Andrew is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 06:36 PM
Born Again Boarder
Gold Subscriber
 
Anfanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spicewood, Texas (in the boonies)
Posts: 6,159
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to Anfanuts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
I would like to add three point seat belts to my 65 TI. I think I read that 67's and onward have an attachment point up the b-pillar, but I can't seem to find one on my 65. Anyone dealt with this?
Yes actually. My 65 Super came with no B-pillar hole/mounting point. A PO put one in (on both sides) and 3-point belts. How I do not know . . . .

One morning, I pulled the belt over and the attachment nut inside the B-pillar cavity came off and went clattering down, presumably to the rockers. The hole was clearly hand drilled and was rough.

To install a new "non-captive" nut inside, I removed the door light switch above, hooked a suitable nut to a thread and lowered it down to the hole. I then mounted the bolt through the tab and it took about 40 minutes to engage the nut, many, many, many tries. Once it caught, i could pull the bolt to continue to thread it onto the nut, several tries. The thread was not in the way. Cinched it up tight. I check them every now and then to make sure they have not loosened up. You would have to do this twice.

Last edited by Anfanuts; 03-12-2017 at 09:46 AM.
Anfanuts is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
Peter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Austin, TX , USA
Posts: 3,850
Garage
I'm getting ready to tackle this. What height on the B-pillar do you guys have the mounting point at? From most pics, looks like it's fairly low....how high is it, and does it work well, or would you mount it higher if you had a choice? Bruce, you're a tall guy....what's your experience?

Peter

Currently: '65 Giulia TI

Previously:
'76 Alfasud Ti/'75 GT Junior/'87 Alfa 33
'91 Alfa 75/'95 Alfa 164/'79 Alfa Spider '69 Euro 1750 GTV, '67 Duetto, '84 Spider Veloce
'91 164L
Peter is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 02:39 PM
Born Again Boarder
Gold Subscriber
 
Anfanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spicewood, Texas (in the boonies)
Posts: 6,159
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to Anfanuts
So the '72 that was factory installed, from C/L of bolt to:
- level of top of stainless steel window/door trim is 6 1/2"
- level of white b-pillar fabric to brown vinyl trim is 8 1/4"

The white '65 that had NO factory 3rd point installed but was drilled per above, from C/L of bolt to:
- level of top of stainless steel window/door trim is 8 1/2"
- level of white b-pillar fabric to brown vinyl trim is 10 1/4" Both here a difference of 2" higher.

Both seem comfortable to me at 6'2" I had never noticed the difference. You want it as low as you can get for comfort so your head does not slip out in a crash if the door opens. The lower position may be better for passengers who are not as tall as you typically. While it seems like the factory setting is lower by 2", I don't think 2" would make a huge difference.

PS: fishing the nut down with thread through the light assembly opening (disconnect battery) is not easy and requires a lot of tries, patience and luck and cussing. If anybody knows a better method, I'm all ears. I would not trust taping and threading the B-pillar metal as it is not too thick and would pull out. A second person would help to hold the belt assembly tension up while you fish with the bolt through the mounting tang hole, the B-pillar hole and to the waiting aligned nut. I recall I put a lock washer between the pillar and nut also, hung both together on the thread. Good luck.
Peter likes this.

Last edited by Anfanuts; 03-12-2017 at 09:48 AM.
Anfanuts is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
Peter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Austin, TX , USA
Posts: 3,850
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfanuts View Post
So the '72 that was factory installed, from C/L of bolt to:
- level of top of stainless steel window/door trim is 6 1/2"
- level of white b-pillar fabric to brown vinyl trim is 8 1/4"

The white '65 that had NO factory 3rd point installed but was drilled per above, from C/L of bolt to:
- level of top of stainless steel window/door trim is 8 1/2"
- level of white b-pillar fabric to brown vinyl trim is 10 1/4" Both here a difference of 2" higher.

Both seem comfortable to me at 6'2" I had never noticed the difference. You want it as low as you can get for comfort so your head does not slip out in a crash if the door opens. The lower position may be better for passengers who are not as tall as you typically. While it seems like the factory setting is lower by 2", I don't think 2" would make a huge difference.

PS: fishing the nut down with thread through the light assembly opening (disconnect battery) is not easy and requires a lot of tries, patience and luck and cussing. If anybody knows a better method, I'm all ears. I would not trust taping and threading the B-pillar metal as it is not too thick and would pull out. A second person would help to hold the belt assembly tension up while youi fish with the bolt through the hoiunting tang hole, the B-pillar hole and to the waiting aligned nut. Good luck.
thanks Bruce!

Peter

Currently: '65 Giulia TI

Previously:
'76 Alfasud Ti/'75 GT Junior/'87 Alfa 33
'91 Alfa 75/'95 Alfa 164/'79 Alfa Spider '69 Euro 1750 GTV, '67 Duetto, '84 Spider Veloce
'91 164L
Peter is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 01:31 PM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
tubut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 8,146
Garage
Alfa TSB 1.01.189 "Instructions For Adding Safety Belts", dated 10-Apr-1963, shows where and how to add upper belt attachment points on the B-pillar (copied below the 2 pages concerning the 1600 T.I.). Note the different heights depending on chassis number, as well as the remarks about a reinforcing plate that seems to have been welded into the B-pillar at the factory. Obviously, they only considered static shoulder belts at the time (not 3-point belts with automatic retraction).

Name:  1.01.189 (CarDisc) - p.07 .jpg
Views: 112
Size:  64.7 KB

Name:  1.01.189 (CarDisc) - p.07b .jpg
Views: 112
Size:  66.0 KB
Peter likes this.

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now a restomod in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).

Last edited by tubut; 03-10-2017 at 01:42 PM.
tubut is online now  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 02:00 PM
Born Again Boarder
Gold Subscriber
 
Anfanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spicewood, Texas (in the boonies)
Posts: 6,159
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to Anfanuts
Looks nice Reudi but I did not detect any thicker metal section when examining the holes, and when it let loose, I heard a nut fall down the B-column, presumably to the rockers somewhere. It was definitely not tapped.

Peter - If you are also installing rear lap belts (or 3-point) you need to install honking big thick washers, like 3"dia, on the outside/bottom. The rear belts in my '65 are like that, as well as the 3-point belts I put in my Duetto.
Anfanuts is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 11:45 AM
Registered User
 
GTA R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 464
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfanuts View Post
Yes actually. My 65 Super came with no B-pillar hole/mounting point. A PO put one in (on both sides) and 3-point belts. How I do not now. But . . .
Weird. My '63 1600 Ti was a CKD car put together in South Africa. It has (and they are original), correct mounting points for 3 point belts in the pillar.

Steve

GTA R
Giulia Ti Super Rep yet to finish. BMW 2000 NK to Ti spec
GTA R is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 07:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tokyo/Rome
Posts: 584
Hi Peter

Just a thought but have you considered a 3 point mounting but with the third belt fixed behind the rear seat?

Not convenient if rear seat used frequently, but does offer better? security in that both shoulders are firmly held, and of course, the rear belt can have an inertia reel to allow easy movement.

When carrying rear passengers lap belt used alone.

My race Ti Super was thus equipped in period.

Richard
richards is online now  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
Peter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Austin, TX , USA
Posts: 3,850
Garage
I found a way that makes this so easy, that I felt the need to share it here.

I went with the mounting height from the Alfa TSB 1.01.189 "Instructions For Adding Safety Belts" that Ruedi shared (6.3" from stainless trim in my case), and for what it's worth, I found the metal to be pretty thick there , took a while to drill the hole.

I took self locking nuts, but not the kind with the nylon. Took a piece of 1" wide flat metal (1.25" does not work) and drilled two holes in it. A small hole in the top to put a string on, and a big hole in the middle to get the bolt through.

Asked my neighbor, who is a welder by trade, to please weld the nuts to the tabs for me. Painted them, just for good measure. Lowered them with the string (flat side in) until the holes lined up and put the bolt in. Each side literally took me under 1 minute....like two tries to get the bolt to catch and then just tighten in....because of the tabs, it is very easy as the nut can't turn

See pics
Attached Images
   
Anfanuts and maseratiguy like this.

Peter

Currently: '65 Giulia TI

Previously:
'76 Alfasud Ti/'75 GT Junior/'87 Alfa 33
'91 Alfa 75/'95 Alfa 164/'79 Alfa Spider '69 Euro 1750 GTV, '67 Duetto, '84 Spider Veloce
'91 164L
Peter is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 12:27 PM
Registered User
 
carl750's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Galena, Illinois
Posts: 489
Note that the factory drawing was for "manually tightened" belts; not inertia reals like you will probably install. Be sure to position the reels so that the inertia mechanism works ...... some are designed to only work is positioned vertically, some horizontally.
carl750 is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 03-18-2017, 01:06 PM
Born Again Boarder
Gold Subscriber
 
Anfanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spicewood, Texas (in the boonies)
Posts: 6,159
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to Anfanuts
I have thought about possible future belt R&R and/or headliner replacement and would lose my "nuts". This would allow drilling and installing a couple of metal screws into the "backer plate" to hold it in-place through the B-pillar, even if only temporary for the work. Nice solution.

Be sure the floor/rocker mounted inertial real is far enough back so as not to crowd the seat's reward motion. For a tall guy like you, you may need it all.
Anfanuts is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
Replace with
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome