Super/TI Comparison's

[Anfanuts]

Super fans,

As part of my research on buying a Super recently, I tried to make some sense of the various years and models made. I prepared the attached Excel chart to help sort it out. It was largely based on the book, Alfa Romeo Catalogue Raisone, edited by Altieri, Lurani & Puttini, and the Berlina Register's "All About the Alfa Romeo Giulia Sedan" (credit to Andrew). Plus that 2 page comparison diagram (posted before here). Note that I tried to translate the text under the illustrations from Italian to English but it's spotty using Google Translate (if anyone can fill in the Google errors let me know).

There are some inconsistencies between the two cited main resources and some gaps in information. One example is the lack of any discussion I can find on Biscione trim packages that arose on a recent thread.

I have included all the mentioned references in this post so it is all together in one place. Perhaps it could be a Sticky some day if useful? Perhaps you have others to post?

I would like to throw this table out for some peer review and discussion and update where needed, or at least annotation of different information. If you have any suggestions or mark-ups, PM or e-mail me and I'll send you my e-mail address.

A Super Newbie, Bruce

Posted updated translation 3 April 10 (added missing models and revisions)
Posted revised Excel comparison table 7 April 2010 (general revision)
Poster revised Excel comparison table 8 April 2010 (axle & wheel info)

[Anfanuts]

Here is the info I got from Roland on Biscione trim.

[Andrew]

I included these in a Berlina/Giulia Register newsletter a couple years ago. Great information. Thanks for posting.
Andrew

[Gasolina]

Great information indeed.

Picture above has two pictures of 1969 cars with thin ”Illea bumper”. Have anyone more information to share about these?
Old 1969 sales brochure, road test etc pictures has cars always with ”Illea bumper” ,but where they are in nowadays? Looks that almost every 1969 cars run with large second series bumper, so how many cars really were left the factory with thin one?

[mls64]

Didn't they go from 15" to 14" wheels at some point (1970)?

[Anfanuts]

That was my general understanding as well (US 105's to 14" with 69 MY). But, the Alfa Romeo Catalogue Raisone cites 14" wheels as being "optional" with the 72-74 Super 1.3 & 1.6 and standard on the '74-78 Nuovo. Perhaps Supers were treated differently? Anyone else know for sure? Before that, it states they were all 155x15. It's just a reference, like Fusi. Anyone else?? Where is Roland when you need him . . . .

[geh458]

According to my '72s owners manual, 15" wheel were stock on the Super 1.3, and the 1.6 came with 14's.

[Anfanuts]

The manual I have (in English*) for a Super 1.3/1.6 is not specific as to what model got which tires and does not imply it was separated by 1.3 vs. 1.6, see attached PDF. Seems strange as they were trying to unify (some call the Super 1.3 & 1.6 a "Unificata") the cars except for the engines and rear axels.

*Publication No. 1933 - 6/72 - 2700

[Andrew]

Fusi lists 14" by this time for everything, but who knows if that's accurate. My 67 Giulia 1300 TI had 15". I can't imagine how it would have been cheaper for Alfa to use 15" on the low-priced spreads compared to the higher priced brands.
Andrew

[Anfanuts]

Perhaps Altieri, Lurani & Puttini are confused? I'll scan and post an excerpt. There are other differences between the info in the Berlina Register sheet you posted and my reference. And a notable gap on how many 1.3 & 1.6's were made, and production numbers between Fusi and Altieri, Lurani & Puttini differ. Altieri, Lurani & Puttini do not list rear axel type but you did. You show 1.3/1.6's from 74-76 but they were most assuredly made from 72-74 before the Nuovo. With PO's changing wheels for newer tires, who knows what was original anymore. Roland???

[mls64]

The '71 1300 that I owned as well as my current '72 1300 had 14" wheels.

[180OUT]

I think what was happening was that, at least for the 105 series cars, the "lesser" model got older technology equipment. Alfa always had a tendency to use what was in the parts bin and so there were always occasional anomolies (although seldom with the higher end cars). With cars like Supers, TI's and Jrs. Alfa probably kept outfitting them with obsolete designs because that kept the suppliers in business. Remember, Alfa was state owned at the time.

[alfa2go]

Here was my attempt from a couple of years ago. I gave up

Super Differences

[Gasolina]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mls64 Didn't they go from 15" to 14" wheels at some point (1970)?

[Grandeblek]

Another peculiarity with Giluia Supers,is that at some point after 1970,the wheel nuts were standardised to all of them being right handed thread,on all four wheels,whereas,on my 1967 Super, and my 1971 Super,the wheel nuts in the left side wheels were all left handed threads,but strangely enough,the wheels on my previous 1971 Berlina were all right handed threads. It was not unusual,for the uninformed owner of Supers with this strange thread arrangement,to go crazy trying to undo wheel nuts that just did not come off,because they would try to undo them,when in fact they were tightening them. I imagine the reason for this left and right handed threads on wheel nuts,was for safety reasons,to reduce the likelihood of wheels falling off due to insufficient tightening in error.