Super/TI Comparison's - Page 7 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

  #91 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2011, 07:38 AM
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Gasolina, are you sure that the blue car is a Super ?
It has a TI grille......
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2011, 07:43 AM
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Hey Randy, that data is the same in the Tabucci book, carried all the way out to 1977 through the '74 105.26 Super "unificatas" and the 105.26S Nuovos through 1977. It still seems incredible (unbelievable) that there were 20,782 cars made in '65 if the production line only geared up in December per Tabucci. And then the made-on date of the white one above (mid-run) is August 31? Pinging Alfa Storico for some more info on SN car's production dates, or having owners provide this info here, might help paint a more accurate picture. For example the one you showed should be about September/October if the white one is late-August.

I'd also like to hear again from Roland on this new information about "pre-series" Series 1 cars, rarity and numbers. His nice car, for example, a February. Perhaps the 1966 "change" cited in the document above is the changeover form "early" to later with the features cited by Roland? That would make them a lot less rare than thought if there are ~ 10,000++ "pre-series" cars (but still few out of ~124,000 Tipo 105.26's).

If someone had a lot of spare time they could enter the document you cite into Google Translate and come up with a somewhat serviceable translation that a bi-lingual speaker here could polish. I've done this before via one Alfisti on a similar but shorter document (above). Can you scan the original and post? Tks, B
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Anfanuts; Ph.A., B.S.A., U. of NOTASME
Now
- Spider Veloce, '69 US1750/4.56 LSD (pictures)(and more) - since '75 for that early mid-life crisis!
- Pinyo - '72 Super, 2L/4.30LSD (pictures)(and more) - for that late mid-life crisis!!
- Gina Lolo Bianca - '65 early Series 1 Super, white/lt.blue-gray, stock 1600/4.56 (pics)(more pics) (Blog) - just for the heck of it now!!!
- Mr Meconium- '73 Giulia Super 1.6, Giallo Piper/black, very stock (pics) - for another Euro trip?
- El Blanco - '75 Super, ex-Nuova to earlier Super style, 2L/4.30LSD, white/gray-black - pics - now for sale
Gone - Colonel Mustard - '67 Giulia Sprint GTV, Giallo Ocra/black, very stock, 1600 (pics) - LINK
- '70 1300 TI, 2L/4.10LSD, white/black - for a short while only . . .
- Benjamin - '76 ex-Nuova to 1600 Super (pics) - for the 2011 Euro trip
- '69 1750 Berlina (wish I still had)
Links
Pinyo's 2010, 10 wk, 8000 mi "Super" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Benjamin's 2011, 7 week, 3500 mile "Super2" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Gina Lolo's 2011 Alfa Convention, 3350 mile Roadtrip blog - LINK

Last edited by Anfanuts; 01-31-2011 at 03:51 PM.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2011, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101/105guy View Post
Gasolina, are you sure that the blue car is a Super ? It has a TI grille......
Speaking of "blue", exactly what color is the car you posted above, not Celeste blue, but a hint of Turquoise? And randy, what does your discerning eye pick up in the grill that says TI and not series 1 Super?
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Anfanuts; Ph.A., B.S.A., U. of NOTASME
Now
- Spider Veloce, '69 US1750/4.56 LSD (pictures)(and more) - since '75 for that early mid-life crisis!
- Pinyo - '72 Super, 2L/4.30LSD (pictures)(and more) - for that late mid-life crisis!!
- Gina Lolo Bianca - '65 early Series 1 Super, white/lt.blue-gray, stock 1600/4.56 (pics)(more pics) (Blog) - just for the heck of it now!!!
- Mr Meconium- '73 Giulia Super 1.6, Giallo Piper/black, very stock (pics) - for another Euro trip?
- El Blanco - '75 Super, ex-Nuova to earlier Super style, 2L/4.30LSD, white/gray-black - pics - now for sale
Gone - Colonel Mustard - '67 Giulia Sprint GTV, Giallo Ocra/black, very stock, 1600 (pics) - LINK
- '70 1300 TI, 2L/4.10LSD, white/black - for a short while only . . .
- Benjamin - '76 ex-Nuova to 1600 Super (pics) - for the 2011 Euro trip
- '69 1750 Berlina (wish I still had)
Links
Pinyo's 2010, 10 wk, 8000 mi "Super" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Benjamin's 2011, 7 week, 3500 mile "Super2" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Gina Lolo's 2011 Alfa Convention, 3350 mile Roadtrip blog - LINK
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2011, 01:03 PM
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Bruce, perhaps the lightning of the show room has did the trick. Front side of the car was open door and it takes some natural light throw it. Look at the area above the bumper, it shows the colour in more realistic shade. Anyway, i'm not sure if it was the ”Celeste”, but for pretty sure it was something very close to it. Jorma
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2011, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101/105guy View Post
Gasolina, are you sure that the blue car is a Super ?
It has a TI grille......
Good point If I remember correctly it has Super tail lights and gauges, I don't realized Ti grille before. I will check if I have more pictures about that car. Jorma
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Giulia Super "Biscione" 28th February 1969

Last edited by Gasolina; 01-27-2011 at 01:10 PM.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 01-27-2011, 03:26 PM
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So do we think the door hinges changed from the Ti style to the common pin type in Feb 66? I had a parts car with the early type

According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 720236 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Super RHD (105.28), manufactured on the 2nd July 1965 and sold on the 10th May 1966 to Alec Mildren from Pymble, Australia.

The body colour is bluette (AR 327), with skai interiors.

No further information available on this car.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2011, 02:30 AM
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Derek, Yes, I think it's posible, there is listed both type hinges for Super in Parts Book, but not mentioned from wich number they change the model.

About the engines; I've here some Technical Bulletin material and there is mentioned that the deeper (28mm) oli pan came at the same time as the model year 1966 started (again not mentioned from wich number), I believe that they made the valve cover mod at the same time as well( but I don't have any evidences..)
Actually now I'm thinking is it possible that the model year 1965 turned to 1966 as late as February 1966 ?? Jorma
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2011, 02:50 AM
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Hi Jorma, that would interesting to know when the minor engine changes happened. My car has the shallow sump, but who knows what is original on mine.

According to our documentation files, the chassis number AR 721136 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Giulia Super RHD (105.28), manufactured on the 2nd August 1966 and sold on the 24th October 1966 to Alec Mildren from Pymble, Australia.
The body colour is hawthorn white (AR 013), with black skai interiors.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2011, 04:46 AM
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Hi!,

101 and early 105-series shared the same basic engine, 1965 was last year for 101-series, so probaply 1966 was a new start?

What is your engines Serial Number and what sort are the breather system and valve cover, tabs or no tabs? Jorma
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2011, 07:55 AM
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I need to nudge GiuliaBianca into this discussion again. The list of potential '65 to Feb.(?) '66 change items is potentially becoming longer, now to just nail down some close SN's.

The potential changes:
1. No red lines on tach
2. No bolting tabs on valve cover (101)
3. No engine calve cover to intake breather (101)
4. Shallow oil pan (101)
5. TI style door hinges (105.14)
But as usual, the changeover may not have been all at one time but as they ran out of old parts in the bin or gotten a new supply.

Marco did mention something about prototypes coming from 105.14 cars above on the SN1 car.

Now if we can fill-in some more Serial Numbers and reported production dates, either from owners or Marco:

SN305001 to 325783 (20,783#) were made "in 1965" per Tabuccci - but does 1965 cover up to the Feb. 66 sub-model changes?

- AR 105.26*305001 (#1), manufactured on the 22nd December 1965, "but I suppose this could be one prototype from a 105.14 chassis, assembled before that date". AS
- AR105.26*316031 (#11,030) - manufactured on the 31st August 1965. AS
- AR105.26*317781 (#12,780) -- (Randy) ??
- AR105.16*325001 (#20,000) - manufactured on the 23rd December 1965. AS

And RHD -
- AR105.28*720236 - manufactured on the 2nd July 1965. AS
- AR105.28*721136 - manufactured on the 2nd August 1966. AS

-------------------------

PS: Derek - it is interesting and of concern to note in Tabucci that they list no RHD SN's until the 72+ models. The SN's listed earlier do not even include the sequence you have noted (700,000's) but the 72 models RHD starts with 786001 (same 700k sequence anyway). Perhaps they started in '65 with SN720,001?? So I do not know how to account for them or their numbers. Someone needs to sit down with Marco and his journal some day.
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Anfanuts; Ph.A., B.S.A., U. of NOTASME
Now
- Spider Veloce, '69 US1750/4.56 LSD (pictures)(and more) - since '75 for that early mid-life crisis!
- Pinyo - '72 Super, 2L/4.30LSD (pictures)(and more) - for that late mid-life crisis!!
- Gina Lolo Bianca - '65 early Series 1 Super, white/lt.blue-gray, stock 1600/4.56 (pics)(more pics) (Blog) - just for the heck of it now!!!
- Mr Meconium- '73 Giulia Super 1.6, Giallo Piper/black, very stock (pics) - for another Euro trip?
- El Blanco - '75 Super, ex-Nuova to earlier Super style, 2L/4.30LSD, white/gray-black - pics - now for sale
Gone - Colonel Mustard - '67 Giulia Sprint GTV, Giallo Ocra/black, very stock, 1600 (pics) - LINK
- '70 1300 TI, 2L/4.10LSD, white/black - for a short while only . . .
- Benjamin - '76 ex-Nuova to 1600 Super (pics) - for the 2011 Euro trip
- '69 1750 Berlina (wish I still had)
Links
Pinyo's 2010, 10 wk, 8000 mi "Super" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Benjamin's 2011, 7 week, 3500 mile "Super2" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Gina Lolo's 2011 Alfa Convention, 3350 mile Roadtrip blog - LINK

Last edited by Anfanuts; 01-28-2011 at 10:41 AM. Reason: add PS
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:38 AM
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Serial Numbers

Found some copies of original Serial Number documents, first ones:
Attached Images
  
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:42 AM
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And couple of more.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:54 AM
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That's nice! At least it introduces RHD SN's before 1972 in contradiction with Tabucci. Confirms SN720,001 start for RHD cars. More to follow. Thanks Jorma! B

PS: those documents are dated 1970 with 3rd ed in 71 (1971) and include no Model/SN's after 1971 (i.e.,1972-1977)
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Anfanuts; Ph.A., B.S.A., U. of NOTASME
Now
- Spider Veloce, '69 US1750/4.56 LSD (pictures)(and more) - since '75 for that early mid-life crisis!
- Pinyo - '72 Super, 2L/4.30LSD (pictures)(and more) - for that late mid-life crisis!!
- Gina Lolo Bianca - '65 early Series 1 Super, white/lt.blue-gray, stock 1600/4.56 (pics)(more pics) (Blog) - just for the heck of it now!!!
- Mr Meconium- '73 Giulia Super 1.6, Giallo Piper/black, very stock (pics) - for another Euro trip?
- El Blanco - '75 Super, ex-Nuova to earlier Super style, 2L/4.30LSD, white/gray-black - pics - now for sale
Gone - Colonel Mustard - '67 Giulia Sprint GTV, Giallo Ocra/black, very stock, 1600 (pics) - LINK
- '70 1300 TI, 2L/4.10LSD, white/black - for a short while only . . .
- Benjamin - '76 ex-Nuova to 1600 Super (pics) - for the 2011 Euro trip
- '69 1750 Berlina (wish I still had)
Links
Pinyo's 2010, 10 wk, 8000 mi "Super" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Benjamin's 2011, 7 week, 3500 mile "Super2" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Gina Lolo's 2011 Alfa Convention, 3350 mile Roadtrip blog - LINK

Last edited by Anfanuts; 01-28-2011 at 01:50 PM. Reason: add PS
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2011, 03:04 PM
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Super 1600 Variations

This research on early S1 65/66 Supers has led me to catalog some Serial Number and version descriptions on these cars. The simplified bar chart above was easy to "see" but didn't tell the story about the various "versions" as Randy's document so aptly pointed out.

Here is a Word table with all 1600 Super 105.26 (LHD) and 105.28 (RHD) info that I could gather up.

Of note, there are 7 major variants: Series 1 early (65) & late (66/67), Series 2 a (67), b (69) & c's (70), S3 Unificata's (72) and S4 Nuovo's (74), not including the 1600S or Nuovo diesel variations (either not .26's or 1600's), but they are noted. I am coining some new nomenclature here for the variation but you could call them by year if desired.

There are quite a few inconsistencies and gaps, the most glaring being specific production numbers on RHD cars before 1972 in Tabucci.

Of course this could be expanded for TI and 1300 models to be very comprehensive. Have at!

Appreciate any comments or additional information. Your early car's SN, prod date, and features would be helpful!! B

Let me know if you prefer a Word document (send e-mail). It's too big to post here.
Attached Images
  
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Super versions R1.pdf (44.8 KB, 81 views)
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Anfanuts; Ph.A., B.S.A., U. of NOTASME
Now
- Spider Veloce, '69 US1750/4.56 LSD (pictures)(and more) - since '75 for that early mid-life crisis!
- Pinyo - '72 Super, 2L/4.30LSD (pictures)(and more) - for that late mid-life crisis!!
- Gina Lolo Bianca - '65 early Series 1 Super, white/lt.blue-gray, stock 1600/4.56 (pics)(more pics) (Blog) - just for the heck of it now!!!
- Mr Meconium- '73 Giulia Super 1.6, Giallo Piper/black, very stock (pics) - for another Euro trip?
- El Blanco - '75 Super, ex-Nuova to earlier Super style, 2L/4.30LSD, white/gray-black - pics - now for sale
Gone - Colonel Mustard - '67 Giulia Sprint GTV, Giallo Ocra/black, very stock, 1600 (pics) - LINK
- '70 1300 TI, 2L/4.10LSD, white/black - for a short while only . . .
- Benjamin - '76 ex-Nuova to 1600 Super (pics) - for the 2011 Euro trip
- '69 1750 Berlina (wish I still had)
Links
Pinyo's 2010, 10 wk, 8000 mi "Super" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Benjamin's 2011, 7 week, 3500 mile "Super2" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Gina Lolo's 2011 Alfa Convention, 3350 mile Roadtrip blog - LINK

Last edited by Anfanuts; 01-29-2011 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Revised attachments, Rev.1
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2011, 11:26 AM
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Hi Bruce, thanks to you. Unfortunately I have currently just those four
documents of SN's. Perhaps I have opportunity dig up some old papers on next or
week after that.

There must be happened something significant changes during the production of
RHD cars, I've just pretty poor Spare Parts material for RHD's.
Would be nice to
hear comments about this from members of RHD countries.
Jorma
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