Transmission F12 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-09-2016, 04:25 AM Thread Starter
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Transmission F12

Hello to you all.
I am in the need of help, hope someone is willing to clarifies a few questions.
I have over the last year been looking on the Alfa Romeo vans.
The primary source for information is Tony Stevens from Alfa Stop, who runs the Romeo register, and an article in Giuliettaletta also done by Tony Stevens.
There is 2 questions that I, have been able to find answers on
Who produced the rear axle. Was it produced internally by Alfa Romeo, or was it sourced from an outside producer.
The transmission for the Romeo 1-2-3 versions, had as I understand a transmission from ZF the ZF 4 DS –7, on all the Romeo models.

But what transmission was used on the A+F .11-12.
Was that also a transmission from ZF. If so what was the type number.
Or was it a transmission that was modified by Oto-Melara, a sister company to Alfa Romeo.
Looking at the picture of the Romeo drive train, compared to the spare parts catalog for the F12. I don’t see any resembles between the 2 transmission.

Tony Stevens write on the Romeo register:
“together with a de-tuned version of the Giulia 1300 ti engine, a new Oto-Melara transaxle and supposedly improved driveshafts.
This reference can also be found on other web sites.
The housing of the F12 looks very siminglar to a Giulia transmission, with the casted supports on the housing.
By transaxle I understand the the output axle in the transmission, witch engage the driveshaft.
But was the transmission a modified Giulia transmission, or was it supplied from an outside source.
If so WHO.
Hope someone can clear my knowledge
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 11:10 AM
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Transaxle = gearbox plus differential unit, for front engine & front drive as in the case of the A12/F12, or for rear engine & rear drive as in the case of Fiat 500, VW Beeetle, and Hewland for race cars. The transaxle adjoins the engine, and the drive shafts are mounted onto the output of the transaxle.

As you already quote me, the A12/F12 transaxle was sourced by Alfa Romeo from Oto Melara, an independant company outside of the Alfa Romeo group. I understand that the internals were supplied by Alfa Romeo, but as with all the A12/F12 parts, they were re-numbered so comparison with 105 series parts by part number is difficult, well in fact impossible.

Tony
AlfaStop
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 05:20 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you Tony Stevens for you answer. I appreciate it very much
It clears something here in Denmark.
There has been an exchange of opinions and understanding of the word transaxle, and the way it should be understood.
In Denmark is the word transaxle, connected to Alfa Romeo models with DeDion rear axle attachment. The Alfatta and on models.
It has been difficult to replace that opinion , with the knowledge of a front wheel drive car.
So again thank you for you explanation, it was very welcome.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 05:42 AM
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Yes, the term "transaxle" for the Alfetta fits in with the accepted English terminology.

Tony
AlfaStop
Sponsor of the Romeo Register - soon, alas, to be closed down
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 01:32 PM
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I agree. AFAIK, the term "transaxle" simply means that transmission and axle driving components (such as the differential) are enclosed in the same housing, no matter whether for a front or rear axle.

Historically speaking, the first Alfa production car using a transaxle was not the 1970s Alfetta but the 8C 2900 A from 1936, previously tested in race cars since 1934, as per the page from Fusi's "Tutte le Vetture..." below, with independent front and rear suspension designed at Porsche under separate contracts. The front suspension was designed earlier for the 6C 2300 and rear suspension designed specifically for the 8C with a transaxle. Both suspensions use an ingenious design that compensates for changes in toe-in and/or track width according to suspension travel.

The advantage of a transaxle on a rear wheel drive car is weight distribution. The downside is that the driveshaft rotates at engine RPM rather than the lower RPMs dictated by the differential ratio, and therefore the driveshaft between engine and transmission is much more difficult to balance. There are also issues with torsional vibration and resonance and drive shaft bending, which usually required multiple bearings and a drive shaft enclosure to control them, which is much easier to do in front drive transaxle designs due to shorter distances (and/or using a gear or chain drive instead of a driveshaft). I don't know what design was used in the vans.
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-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now a restomod in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).

Last edited by tubut; 07-10-2016 at 03:58 PM.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 03:27 PM
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Tony
AlfaStop
Sponsor of the Romeo Register - soon, alas, to be closed down[/QUOTE]

Hi Tony, the Romeo register to close down???!!
Is it being moved to this forum or offline completely?
A wonderful resource & I haven't even added my Romeo to it yet....tonight maybe!
Regards,
Vince
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 06:01 AM
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Hello Vince,

Thanks for your comment.

The Romeo Register website is run on a separate server from the AlfaStop website, and therefore is billed separately. AlfaStop has picked up the tab for it probably 8 to 10 years, with never an offer of support despite there being several discreet mentions on the website. Even those who have blantantly copied sections of it when advertising Romeos or A12/F12s or provided a direct link have not contributed a penny.

I don't want the above to sound like sour grapes. It most certainly is not, it is just a statement of fact. The cost of running the RomeoRegister.com website is better spent on running and developing AlfaStop.

So it will be going off-line completely...

Kind regards,

Tony
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-12-2016, 06:29 AM
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Hi Tony,
What is the best email to contact you on? I saw somewhere issues with your server or something.
I recall having trouble getting in touch previously. I have a few different things to ask you about .
Regards,
Vince.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-12-2016, 06:45 AM
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Vince,

You can e-mail me using tony@ or sales@. I am reluctant to spell it out in full as there has been a recent unexplained rise in spam e-mails being received here recently.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 10-01-2016, 08:04 AM
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ZF Gearbox for sale

Hello !
I have a gearbox for sale.
It is a ZF 4DS7 which was reconditioned by ZF many years ago, and meanwhile stored in a dry place !
I bought it as a gearbox for my Tempo Matador but unfortunately it doesn´t fit !
I payed € 750,- for it.
I have some photos, but cannot post them here..
Please send me an eMail !

Regards Dirk
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