I cannot understand why every second car is not an Alfa Romeo - Page 10 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #136 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 10:27 PM
Del
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"Surely that is too high"

Too high. Should be able to run the factory recommended pressures without trouble.

I suspect that while the car alignment meets the original factory specs, they may not be the best for tire wear and mileage but set up for best short term handling, just as the original specs for the 164s were. The factory came out later with a service bulletin which changed the 164 specs which maybe gave less than optimum handling but allowed much better tire wear. 164 owners were getting in some cases only 10k miles out of a set of front tires. Alfa tended to set the specs for handling, not tire wear. Unrealistic. With the newer specs, they could get ~30k miles out of a set of summer performance front tires.

That plus not rotating the tires might accelerate the wear and give you what you ended up with. And, yes, a bad shock or out of balance tire could also be contributory.

Otherwise, glad all else is fine.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 03-01-2017 at 10:31 PM.
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post #137 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks to your post Del I finally looked up in the owners manual what the factory tyre pressures should be and it is 2.5 bar (36 psi). So oops I have added to my tyre wear because I was running 34 psi as that is what the wheel alignment sticker on the windscreen said. I've also being running 4 people up a fair bit and as my kids are pretty much adults that is really 4 up, so running 2 psi low would have increased the rear tyre temp a lot.

So 36 psi all around from now on. I've removed that wheel alignment sticker!


I can also see now why many bang on about 156's being FWD and how that is a shame. When you drive the car it is not an issue at all and it is an awesome mile eater (in fact since it's oil & filter change yesterday I've already slapped another 150km's on her running my daughter around ) but the limited tyre mileage is all caused by setting up a FWD chassis to handle as an Alfa Romeo should. I'm sure, and hope, the 75/Milano chassis gets considerably better tyre mileage and running that running gear under the FAR better looking 156 body would have been awesome with all independent (FIAT?) suspension, especially if some extra attention was given to the gear change.

Anyway it is what it is and I still enjoy the car.


It does have a couple of minor oil leaks; one from the power steering pump (not long ago I resealed our Honda one and that was easy so should just do this!), and also from the rear of the engine. I'm currently assuming a slight rear crank seal leak ... Thanks to the under tray it never drips on the garage floor


One day when I refresh this engine in say 10 years time, I will be looking for solid cam followers as I do have a couple of lazy hydraulic followers that clack away until warm. This will be better now there is fresh oil in her, but these overhead cam hydraulic followers are really an unnecessary item that give considerably trouble on ALL marques. My father has commented on this being a common Audi issue, etc. And yes I am aware they are cheap to buy but they will give trouble again ...

In the end the designers of these modern engines are over thinking and should have stuck to solid cam followers because with modern valve gear and materials the valve clearances simply don't alter and very, very rarely do they need to be adjusted. I had a Toyota Tarago that we checked all valve clearances at the 100,000 mile mark as per the service manual and every single one was perfect and they are twin overhead cam 4 valves per cylinder with solid followers. Plus how often do Nord engines need adjustment here ... again rarely and my Sud race engine also never needed adjustment even after a full race season with 9,000 rpm occasionally being used.
Pete

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post #138 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 02:54 PM
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I am getting very even wear and good mileage out of the tyres on my GT, so I am not sure it is true that FWD means more wear. My car has KW V2 coilovers and a strut brace. We have two three litre 75s and they can wear the inside edge of the front tyres if set up for optimum handling. The red one was set up by Benincas and chewed out the Yokohamas on the front like that.

Current Alfas
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
!989 75 3 litre (black). Shared project with my son.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.

Past Alfas
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #139 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 06:42 PM
Del
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The 91 164S that we got in the US had significant negative camber in the front, as well as calling for a lot of toe out. This wore the front tires at a high rate, sometimes people getting 10-15k miles on them, if that. Later, Alfa revised the toe spec to basically zero, and that really helps, although it is the negative camber which is the devil in the details, not allowing these front drivers to get much more than 30k miles or so. That plus the heavier weight bias to the front as compared to RWD Alfas with their close to 50/50 distribution.

So, as far as I'm concerned, these heavier front drivers do wear the front tires faster than the equiv weight RWD cars, given optimum alignments for the least tire wear, even with frequent tire rotations, based on my own experience with both styles, from basic 850 minis to the 164, with RWD cars in between. With my Alfas, I've always tried for max tire wear, rather than optimum handling, not being a wild and crazy driver.

Del

Seattle

89 Milano (wife's daily driver since 1989, Shankle Sport)
91 164S (my daily driver since 1994)
94 164LS (~Q) (trip Alfa since 2000)
72 Morgan 27 (water time since 1976)

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #140 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 07:34 PM
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The settings Alfa quoted for the 159s when they came out led to rapid wear of the front tyres and many had to be replaced under warranty. At $600 per 19" tyre for the original Pirelli P Zero Neros on the ti model it was an expensive exercise if the car was out of warranty. The guys in the UK worked out that setting the toe to zero fixed the problem. We got 55,000 km out of the Pirelli Cinturato P1s on ours last time on that setting, with free rotation every 10,000 km from our tyre shop. They wore perfectly evenly. I didn't notice any loss of handling. We fit 245/35/19" tyres instead of the original 235/40/19" because they are common here and a lot cheaper.

Current Alfas
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
!989 75 3 litre (black). Shared project with my son.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.

Past Alfas
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #141 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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My front tyres so far are wearing evenly, it is the rear that wore the inside quickly. Now of course I have no idea how old those tyres were and heck maybe they were the fronts until just before I bought the car??

Anyway running them 2 psi lower and going on 3 hour trips would not have helped, fully laden.

Will keep you informed
Pete

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post #142 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 04:13 AM
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There is a series of numbers on the sidewall of the tyre that tells you exactly how old it is. You can look up how to read it on the web Pete.

Current Alfas
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
!989 75 3 litre (black). Shared project with my son.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.

Past Alfas
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #143 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz3litre View Post
There is a series of numbers on the sidewall of the tyre that tells you exactly how old it is. You can look up how to read it on the web Pete.
Too late now as those tyres were left at the tyre replacement place.

Anyway had a lovely family outing to McLaren falls and managed a nice walk in the sun. Strangely and annoyingly I stalled her a couple of times ... I must be getting old
Pete

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post #144 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-10-2017, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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Interestingly post oil change she starts up with out any camshaft follower noise. Also I'm using her more often .
Pete

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post #145 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 02:37 AM
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Yes, the cam follower noise is worst when the engine haven't been used for a while. Or when the oil type is too thick.
What kind of oil do you use? Alfa recommended 10W-40 and later 10W-60. As earlier written I've no experiences with the Bosso V6s. But a number (not all) 4 cyl. TS engines had a oil consumption problem hence the 10W-60 recommention.
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post #146 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 07:55 AM
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My 3.2 requires little to no topping up between services ad I get no cam follower noise. When I first got it we ran a cleaner through it for a while. It has done just over 150,000 km.

Current Alfas
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
!989 75 3 litre (black). Shared project with my son.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.

Past Alfas
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #147 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik View Post
Yes, the cam follower noise is worst when the engine haven't been used for a while. Or when the oil type is too thick.
What kind of oil do you use? Alfa recommended 10W-40 and later 10W-60. As earlier written I've no experiences with the Bosso V6s. But a number (not all) 4 cyl. TS engines had a oil consumption problem hence the 10W-60 recommention.
10W-40.

oz3litre, I do not think my engine burns oil, more than any European engine, but I do have to top up because of the minor leaks. But I am talking bugger all so no a concern.

Re cam follower noise, note I parked the car while I saved up to fix the tyres, etc. so it had seen no use for a month or so. Now that I am back to using it ~once a week there is no cam follower noise. So all is good

Pete

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post #148 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Okay question time

My alarm light, when the car is locked, is flashing faster than it used to. According to the manual that means that an attempt to break in has occurred. Most likely this was me checking the car was locked as we left it outside over Saturday night.

How do you reset this so that it will return to its usual very slow "blink" please?

Unlocking the car and locking again does not do it, starting the car also does not do it ... I wonder if the offending door/boot has to be opened and closed again???
Pete

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post #149 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 11:10 PM Thread Starter
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Drove her pretty much all day today up to Auckland and back, for positive reasons as my wife is hopping over to Sydney for a week, and all over Tauranga as I ran my kids to their necessary places.

Never missed a beat, of course ... maybe close to 600kms

And so quiet
Pete
oz3litre and GioGTVTS like this.

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post #150 of 155 (permalink) Old 05-21-2017, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
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Ran over a large rock yesterday, did not see it at all, but both my son and I got a huge fright by the enormous bang. I had just gunned her up to 100kph. I stopped, inspected the underneath and turned around and went back and located the rock and got my son to throw it as far as he could into a ditch off the road.

It appears that the undertray took the hit near the left rear mount and bent my previous repair and took a little bit more of the undertray off ... err!, but thankfully I can see no other damage.

I guess an alloy undertray might be needed in the future, but post the fright consider myself lucky
Pete

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