Alfa Romeo Forums banner

Alfa GT

10K views 117 replies 21 participants last post by  GTVMAN 
#1 ·
Finally, Alfa has released more info and pics of the new Alfa GT:

Its based on the 156, with more less the same range of engines available.
More pics here.
 
See less See more
1
#27 ·
This is a good discussion :)

Lets think about why manufacturers make FWD cars.

Manufacturers make FWD cars because:
  • They are cheaper to produce because the engine and gearbox/diff are all packaged neatly together and thus easier to handle on the production line, etc.
  • A FWD car isolates driveline noise better, ie. we do not have a driveshaft and rear mounted diff acting like a speaker.
  • Supposedly for idiot drivers FWD cars are easier to control in cases of traction loss ... er, try loosing the rear of a FWD car through a very fast sweeper before believing this comment.

No where in my list ... and I have probably missed a few points ... is there any comment regarding it produces a better car. FWD is all about production line building of cars and nothing about performance drivinhg. Yes Alfa has made them work great, but you can enginer as much as you like a bad design and make it work okay (ie. Porsche 911) but it still will never be ideal.

Thus while I respect the current Alfa lineup of cars, I do not respect a company that supposedly has performance and handling as their top priorities producing FWD cars where they are NOT considering these goals as much as they should be.

BMW does not produce a FWD car because of this, and while I am not a huge fan of BMW, you have to admire them for sticking to their guns/roots.

We have been sold this FWD because it saves the manufacture money NOT because it is better ... like the American auto industry TELLS their clients that this is what they need, and does not listen.

Again what will be next?

Another Alfa Arna, a GM powered Alfa (that is supposedly better ... blah blah), an Alfa Romeo GT that is plain ugly and still FWD (yet we were promised a return to true performance cars).

Sorry, I love Alfa Romeos, I love the fact that they are not got their head in the sand about TOP speed and aceleration times. I love the fact that driver involvement comes first, I love the fact that they are great road coverers and competitive on the race track (where top speed is irrelevant as no straight is long enough). I love the history, but I do worry about the future.

The current auto industry cannot sustain the number of manufacturers and what we are seeing is manufacturers joining together and sharing components, etc. to reduce cost. Naturally Alfa Romeo has done this too (and for a while ... the 164 floor plan is shared with Saab, etc.), but what this has meant for the end consumer is we are lacking with variety, and the things that made some manufacturers great to some are now dulled.

What is going to happen in the future?

I actually think in the next 10 years we will see many manufacturers go under and the big 3 will survive. Cars may become boring like normal applications because of this process, because basically we have no choice, ie. buy this or walk :). I cannot see Alfa Romeo surviving, except as a badge. I also cannot see Ferrari surviving as we know it. Maybe it will become the ONLY Italian manufacturer with a wider range?

Heh, maybe I am wrong ... happens occasionally :)

Pete
 
#28 ·
sorry if i dissed any 155 owners, i used the 155 since its one of the alfas that has alot of fiat in it, even though i love my cousins 97 155 2.0 twin spark

i agree that purists will always say its not the real thing. i drove a 99 328 bmw and it wasnt as fun or as involving as the 89 325 i drove, can i say its not a real bmw?
 
#29 ·
Pete,

I think you are totally wrong!

Read the updates in the news! Alfa will be producing some great RWD and AWD cars very, very soon!

Man, I am really glad that I am not such a pessimist! I'd be singing:

"I wanna be dead...in bed please kill me cuz that would thrill me!"

(a tribute to Frank Zappa)

Life is good, Pete...OK? Go take some Prozac or something. :D
 
#30 ·
Cool I'm glad, lets see those RWD Alfa's, can't wait.

Yes I hope I'm wrong, but I am not wrong about why manufacturers love FWD ... nothing to do with us, simply cost!

BTW: GM is only making $15 per car at the moment and Ford is loosing money over every car they sell ... this is in the US!!!, so I would hate to be making cars at the moment.

Positively
Pete :D
 
#31 ·
Orazio Satta – Father of the Giulia.
Alfa Romeo is not merely a maker of automobiles : it truly is something more than a conventionally built car. It is a kind of affliction, an enthusiasm for a means of transport. It is a way of living, a very special way of perceiving the motor vehicle. What it is resists definition. Its elements are like those irrational character traits of the human spirit which cannot be expalined in logical terms. They are sensations, passions, things that have much more to do with man’s heart than with his brain.

N O T A N Y M O R E !!!!

For my friend, (I hope), Jorgen. Can you understand now, what I mean about Alfa and FIAT? But maybe I’m just a fool romantic.
 
#32 ·
Oh, please. Lets get real here. Sure Alfas are great cars, and though I may not get carried away to the same degree as Nikos and others, I love them too.
I think we need to distinquish between what Alfa is and what we want it to be. It has been MANY years since Alfa turned out cars solely with the purporse of winning races and making the true drivers machine. No company can survive doing that. You need to sell cars, and in order to do that, you need to compromise. Lets realise that although more Alfa drivers than any other are drivers, aware of performance etc, I still believe they represent a minority. In the US where being an Alfa driver is the same as being a classic car nut, this may be different, but mostly everywhere else in the world, an Alfa is a car that you can choose among many other new cars. Before the 156, you would have to be an Alfa nut to buy an Alfa, because of the lack of quality etc. Today, I believe (at least here in Denmark) that the main reason people have for buying an Alfa is not performance, but the design. Its has become a style icon, chosen by yuppies and the style-conscious.
And you know what: thats fine with me, because its has made Alfa tremendously succesfull, compared to the years before where it was close to bankruptcy.
Please dont call me naive, because I think the above shows that I am much more aware of real life economics, than those who wants a RWD Alfa at all cost, believing that if only a "true" Alfa like that was made, everything would be good.
Like Alex, I dont understand whyPSk is so negative about the future of Alfa. 10 years ago I was too - along with most of the motoring press, who foresaw Alfa dead within the near future, but the 156 changed this completely. The succes of these mainstream cars is the basis for Alfa being closer to making a RWD like the 8C, than ever before. I dont believe Alfa will make a complete return to RWD, too much is simply at stake. But I do believe that they will make a "sporting" range of RWD cars, for the "true" Alfista to buy - and lets see how many that will be........:rolleyes:
FWD is not a bad thing - if so, please explain to me how Alfa could win the ETCC with the 156, with BMW coming in second.
And by the way: the 155 is a great car too - and had tremendous succes in the touringcar series as well. In the Alfa club of Denmark (which I believe reflects the whole Alfa production run), its is the 3rd most common car - after the 156 and the 33.

Alfa can not continue to make any type of car, and we like blind sheep continue to rave about Alfa Romoes.
Well, speak for yourself, I believe I'm taking a realistic view at thing while some "rave about RWD like blind sheep".:p

Again, to quote Alex (this dude has some good points:D )
until you actually drive some of those cars, you shouldn't be so quick to criticize!
If you get a chance to drive the 156 or 147 against its modern competitors: VW Golf, Ford Mondeo, Mazda 626, Toyota Avensis AND FIATs etc - you will realize, that these are remarkably different cars. In no way badge-engineered FIATs, and a totally different experience in terms of grip, performance and handling.

(my longest post ever.)
 
#34 ·
I'm definitely with BigSwede on this.

Hmmm I'm done dealing with vibrating driveshaft and blown donuts :D

Bring on the FWD. My 155 V6 has less issues than my 75 3.0. I love the 75 though, that's why I still keep one. It's a capable track car. But I have this sneaking feeling that, the 155 V6 Sport needs less tinkering to be as competitive.
 
#36 ·
Wow - passionate thread.

I think we should remember that Alfa Romeo is merely a car company. All the great engineers and designers that built the GTA in the 60s, Batista Farina, etc. are all dead or retired now. Alfa is not a family owned (or influenced) company - so there is no thread of continuity even.

They make what they think they can sell and make a profit on - nothing more, nothing less. If they thought the market was big enough for a RWD no-holds-barred performance car - they would make it. I'm guessing the marketing people have done the customer research, the MBAs have run the numbers - and unfortunately as a segment we are just too small (and probably wouldn't pay enough for a new car to justify it even if there were enough of us)

If we want the unique, hand-finished, no-compromise RWD sports cars we lust after - we should probably start saving for Ferraris. As others have pointed out the 147s and 156s are doing pretty well (both sales and racing wise) - so we should be happy.

Which reminds me - I saw an episode on the biography channel on Enzo Ferrari. Turns out he had no interest whatsoever in the road-going cars. They were merely a side interest developed for the American market to provide some cash flow for the racing programme.

So it turns out that even Ferrari's aren't genuine!
 
#37 · (Edited)
BigSwede said:
My point of view:
If they have to go FWD to survive - Do it.
If they have to do a SUV to survive - Do it. (khamsin or whatever...)
Basically they should do whatever it takes to survive...
As Orazio Satta said, Alfa Romeo is not actually another car manufacturer. Alfa Romeo badge is hidding a bright history behind its nice colours. Beside of that Alfa Romeo is a way of living, a passion, it holds a whole way of thinking about cars. We must understand that Alfa Romeo is not Kia or Daewoo. Those cars are just some pieces of metal with 4 wheels on each side. Alfa Romeo is not the same. It's a passion, for many people it's even a "religion" as Ferrari is. So this way of thinking, like "If they have to do a SUV to survive - Do it " suits perfectly to manufacturers like Kia, Daewoo, Lexus etc. Those manufacturers only want to sell but they will NEVER make a passion, a way of thinking about cars, a religion. This is not bad for a manufacturer like Kia or Daewoo, but it's so bad for Alfa Romeo. I will never say that the 156 or 147 is a bad handling car. Actually this is the best overall car in hatchback category. I will say that 147 will never "teach" the IDEA of Alfa Romeo. It will never bring you back in time when you are driving this car. It will never bring in your mind the Targa Florio races when you are pushing its throttle. NEVER. It will only tell you that today Alfa Romeo has improved the build quality of its cars. Nothing else. Actually it will tell you that Alfa Romeo achieved to make a VW Golf -in terms of passion and quality- clothed into a beautiful design.

I always believe that the reason that Alfa Romeo cars -and cars in general- today are being transformed into moving "devices" is that WE love, WE want those type of cars. Manufacturers are always searching for profits, nothing more. Since we want such types of cars, manufacturers will build those types of cars. If we wanted cars like those in '70s then manufacturers would build them. Don't put in the equation the build quality. There is passion in an Alfa Romeo even if it has build quality better than that of a Mercedes. Poor quality does not make passion. So, manufacturers could now build cars like those of seventies in terms of passion and respect in history ONLY if WE have the passion ant respect in history. Manufacturers only follows our needs. Nothing more. Only because of the sales and profits. So, maybe there are not anymore real alfisti in our world? If there were such people, then Alfa Romeo would build cars for the real alfisti. So the conclusion is that there are only a few real alfisti in our world...

The new 8C Competizione is the right Alfa - not only in terms of power- and it seems that the passion is yet alive... But the 8C Competizione will be build only in small quantities. Perhaps as small is the quantity of the real alfisti.
 
#38 ·
and thats why alfa is building the 8c beacause it wants to satisfy that small group of die hard rwd alfisiti, for the rest of the world, fwd alfas are just fine and as long as their beautiful and drive well, alfas will always sell~!!


i just hope alfa falls under the ferrari maserati group!!!!!!!
 
#39 ·
8C?? but how many people afford to buy that car?? hmm... for me, I like middle and old Alfas, but ofcoz, i also hope to see Alfa return to RWD, why?? I don't know, but at least, from what i know, majority of sport car is RWD, or even AWD, FWD??... not fun enough...
 
#40 ·
Tubolare: Let me refrase so you understand how I see it:

If Alfa Romeo have to do a SUV to be able to build the 8C Competizione - Do it

If the company is bankrupt (i.e. not selling any cars) they will not be able to design anything but mainstream cars like the current line...
 
#41 · (Edited)
BigSwede said:
Tubolare: Let me refrase so you understand how I see it:

If Alfa Romeo have to do a SUV to be able to build the 8C Competizione - Do it

If the company is bankrupt (i.e. not selling any cars) they will not be able to design anything but mainstream cars like the current line...
BigSwede,

I totally disagree.

If the only way for Gruppo Fiat to find the money and give it to Alfa Romeo for a 8C is to make a SUV then Mr. Gruppo Fiat, please make a SUV right now. But don't add the Alfa Romeo badge on it, please. Add a Fiat badge instead.

Do you want to tell what i mean in other words? Let's say that you are losing all your money in one night in casino (i hope not...it's just an example....:D ) You have to find money in order to be able to live. Will you allow your sister to work as a ....... (you know the word...:D ) ? Absolutely not!
We have to understand that Alfa Romeo mustn't "sell" its name, its history, its tradition for money. There are some other ways for Gruppo Fiat to find money. Mr. Fiat, please make small and good cars as you were uset to in the past. Please don't make VW Golfs with the Fiat badge. There in noone who want to buy them...

Is there any relation with Alfa Romeo and SUV's? Let's hope that we will never see the terrible Kamhal in the production line...
 
#42 ·
No offence but you're not into economics are you? Alfa anf Fiat are run as separate companys and there is no big treasure chest to get money from. Fiat is BTW doing worse then Alfa right now as I understand it...

If the alternatives were Alfa with SUV och no Alfa at all what would you take?
 
#43 ·
Tubolare Zagato said:
BigSwede ... I totally disagree... Let's say that you are losing all your money in one night in casino ... You have to find money in order to be able to live. Will you allow your sister to work as a ....... (you know the word...:D ) ? Absolutely not!...
So, if not BigSwede's sister, you're saying BigSwede himself may have to work as a ... (you know, the word!) ... :D

In your example, if BigSwede was Alfa, and another character, say, Bubba was FIAT, my guess is Bubba would tell BigSwede that if BigSwede wanted to keep making cool cars than BigSwede had better start finding ways to make money since Bubba is taking care of the bad loans, rent of the factory and pay protection money to the Mafia ... er ... Government. Remember, Bubba has a few .. er .. employees like the sexy Ferrari and the idiosyncratic but lovable Lancia, among others. This is not to say BigSwede isn't doing his job as is, but Bubba is in the business of making money, not charity.

So yes, in the long run Alfa would HAVE to ***** itself out as an SUV maker to get the profits in order to build the 8C Competizione. Let's hope for Alfa's sake that it didn't lose too much of its core values - cars with character and identity - as it attempts to stay competitive in the increasingly difficult world market.

Business is rough huh? Wish Alfa could just make 1973 GTV's all its life and still make money.
 
#44 ·
No offence but you're not into economics are you?
:D LOL, no I dont think he is!
Anyways, as I wrote earlier - there is a difference between what Alfa is and what we want it to be or perceive it to be. Clearly, to most of us, Alfa is much more than a car, and I believe that Alfa in general has a much stronger following than many other contemporary marques. BUT: I dont believe we make a majority of Alfa customers, so I must disappoint TZ by posting the news to him: "to most people, Alfa is just another car". And thats why they need to make money-making cars in order to make cars like the 8C for the select few cognoscenti.
 
#45 ·
BigSwede said:
No offence but you're not into economics are you? Alfa anf Fiat are run as separate companys and there is no big treasure chest to get money from. Fiat is BTW doing worse then Alfa right now as I understand it...

If the alternatives were Alfa with SUV och no Alfa at all what would you take?
I am not into economics but i can uderstand some basic things about economics. I agree that Alfa Romeo and Fiat Auto are seperate companies. But Alfa Romeo is under the roof of Gruppo Fiat as you know. And if Gruppo Fiat see that Alfa Romeo needs money then it can find them from the basic and common economical source of Gruppo Fiat.

Fiat is doing worse that Alfa right now for the reasons that i explained. And i know that right now Alfa is doing very very well with sales and profits. So why can't they make an 8C? Perhaps Alfa wants to get into the American market. And we all know that if a SUV is not going to sell well in Europe then it will sell very well in the USA. It's the same example with Porsche Cayenne. American market is what counts today and not the name, nor the passion, nor the tradition....

If i had to choose between an Alfa Romeo with SUVs and no Alfa, i would certainly choose no Alfa! In particular i would choose to have a GT Veloce 2000. And do you know what would be in the right seat of this car? It would be a book. A book about Alfa Romeo history. Inside this book there would not be any SUV or any other BASTARD Alfa. Not any marketing product. Only original Alfas, Tazio's pictures and pictures from the Targa Florio races.
 
#47 ·
whats the big deal if alfa has to build an suv to make better and more bold cars?and to surive?

look at bmw with x5, mercedes with the ml, volvo with xc90 etc.......they were all obliged to make this monster so that they can keep building what the loved and knew best,,,,hek porsche got into it with the cayenne!!!! and fear not maserati is next with the Kubang Gt concept, featuring a variation of audis quattro system?!!! by the way audi and maserati have some joint ventures to share technologies....... alfa cannot regress and build cute lil gtvs and alfettas but learn to adapt with the times and evolve not losing its core......IL CUORE SPORTIVO
 
#50 ·
Sorry I do not agree with BigSwede and many others about this,

Why is it so important to you that Alfa Romeo survives?. If they are not making the same sort of cars that we love about Alfa Romeo, then why do you want it to survive.

Do you have shares in the company or some sort of financial return for each Alfa Romeo sold?

If Alfa Romeo cannot make 100% Alfa Romeos then close the door tomorrow as far as I am concerned. Let Alfa Romeo be remembered for making great fun cars, not just any old piece of ****.

I really do not understand why you would want Alfa Romeo to become any old brand, or a badge on a cr*p vehicle and still be happy just because it survived!!!

Alfa Romeo is not a person that needs to live, it is a brand. Who cares if it dies!

I do not want the brand to be tarnished (like Porsche is now because they are prepared to make any cr*p vehicle to survive. Soon we will see a 4 door hatchback Porsches that is no better than a Toyota Corolla and the once great name of Porsche will mean NOTHING!!!).

I question BigSwede's and others love of Alfa Romeos if they are happy to watch them build any old vehicle and stick the Alfa Romeo badge on it. Stick somebody else's badge on it, and only stick Alfa on the good cars :D

Pete
ps: Above all Alfa Romeo must stay a proud brand ... otherwise let it die. Don't tarnish it IMO.
 
#51 ·
PSk said:
... Why is it so important to you that Alfa Romeo survives?. If they are not making the same sort of cars that we love about Alfa Romeo, then why do you want it to survive. ...

If Alfa Romeo cannot make 100% Alfa Romeos then close the door tomorrow as far as I am concerned. Let Alfa Romeo be remembered for making great fun cars, not just any old piece of ****.

I really do not understand why you would want Alfa Romeo to become any old brand, or a badge on a cr*p vehicle and still be happy just because it survived!!!

I do not want the brand to be tarnished (like Porsche is now ...

I question BigSwede's and others love of Alfa Romeos if they are happy to watch them build any old vehicle and stick the Alfa Romeo badge on it. Stick somebody else's badge on it, and only stick Alfa on the good cars :D

Pete
ps: Above all Alfa Romeo must stay a proud brand ... otherwise let it die. Don't tarnish it IMO.
FINALMENTE!!! FINALMENTE !!!

Bravo PSk. I agree with you 100%.
I cannot understand why it is important to Alfisti (when I joined this forum I beleived that everybody here was) to survive something like Alfa Romeo-FIAT-Lancia-GM-OPEL-Vauxhall-etc.etc...

If there is no cure, let Alfa Romeo die peacefully... and proud

Bravo, Bravo PSk
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top