Alfa's In Trans Am - Page 41 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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Old 04-09-2009, 06:41 AM
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1971 Lime Rock TA Race Report from Road & Track

Attached as a PDF is a 1971 Lime Rock TA Race Report from Road & Track.

Enjoy

Ken
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File Type: pdf 1971 Lime Rock R & T Rept.pdf (363.4 KB, 209 views)
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Ken Geiger, Toronto
1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream
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  #602 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2009, 07:40 AM
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Parkinson GTV?

Hi
I'm going to go out on a limb here, unless someone has already figured this out. The general appearance of the Parkinson car makes me think that it's the 71 Kwech car, before Romero and Samson got it. Any takers on that theory??
Keith
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  #603 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAUGNUT1275 View Post
Hi
I'm going to go out on a limb here, unless someone has already figured this out. The general appearance of the Parkinson car makes me think that it's the 71 Kwech car, before Romero and Samson got it. Any takers on that theory??
Keith
It looks to me that the Baumgartener advert GTA? and the Parkinson GTV are the same car. Both Baumgartener and Parkinson have Yorba Linda in their addresses. I guess they are close to each other. So how could the Kweck 71/72?? GTV be a 1969 Trans Am winning GTA. Or is this another case of confused or misleading history (in the ad) but happening only a couple of years after the fact.

Or should I read the Ad: 1969 (chassis) Trans Am winning GT(V). Then all is clear. Was the use of the #3 deliberate continuation of the ID of this Chassis???

After exhaustive search of this Thread I found the second picture, #31, first shown on page 14 post #208 followed by some unconclusive comments.

I attach a 1971 era picture by Frank Salemi, to show the type of gas filler Kieth is referencing on the Wetson/Kweck GTVs. Also note position of the trunk hold down in both pictures, although where else would one put it.

FWIW

Ken
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Ken Geiger, Toronto
1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream

Last edited by kengta; 12-06-2010 at 07:13 PM.
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  #604 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2009, 11:19 AM
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Gtv???

Hi
Thanks Ken, that's a good shot of the tail. I've sent the color Parkinson photo to Roman, asking if it looks like the Kwech car to him. He restored and maintains that car for a customer.
Keith
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Old 04-10-2009, 04:45 AM
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Hi
I've been talking to Roman the last two nights about the Parkinson GTV. He feels that it is a Kwech car that was wrecked at Riverside, by Cannone?, and cut up. Does that name ring a bell with anyone? It is Not the #3 1971 car, which still exists, obviously.
Keith
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  #606 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2009, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAUGNUT1275 View Post
Hi
I've been talking to Roman the last two nights about the Parkinson GTV. He feels that it is a Kwech car that was wrecked at Riverside, by Cannone?, and cut up. Does that name ring a bell with anyone? It is Not the #3 1971 car, which still exists, obviously.
Keith


Thanks Kieth,

There's lots to know about these Wetson/Kweck GTVs and I would be good to get it all together.

Here what I have heard or deduced from the print. I'm open to corrections.

1970-There was Kweck GTAs masquerading as GTVs toward the end of 1970
1971- there were 3 Orange Pepsi/Wetson GTV # 2, 3, 4
1972- Only recall 2 blue #3 and 4, and I don't know if they were the 1971 cars repainted, but I have heard they were.

I think their are 2 known today one in Michigan and one that I last heard of on the USA west coast. These reportedly carry Brass Tags 72BS04 and 72BS05.

Oskar Feldman reported to me in the mid 1980's that he had one at that time.

The west coast one is (edit: I thought) the Norman( Romero)/ Samson GTV, (edit: see Keith's post below)

Anthony Riminci pondered once on this BB if his father had cut up a Kwech GTV wreck once.

I have seen the Michigan Kwech team GTV as I sure you have. But don't know its provenance between kweck and current owner.

Picture shows this Michigan Orange #3 (Edit : Sam Cumming's GTV) at Amelia Island in 2008.

If I find a picture of the west coast GTV will post later. Edit: Found pic of the Shelly Zide #4 Blue Wetson GTV restored in 1972 livery.

Here's what is said about #4 on the B-Sedan/2.5 Challenge web site. "Shelly Zide (CA), 1971 Alfa Romeo. This is one of the two Kwech/Theodorocopulos Alfa factory cars originally raced in 1971 2.5 Challenge Trans Am series, then thoroughly reprepped with Pepsi sponsorship and logos for the 1972 2.5 Challenge as #4, which is its current appearance."

Ciao

Ken
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Ken Geiger, Toronto
1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream

Last edited by kengta; 04-11-2009 at 06:43 AM. Reason: To reflect info below, add Pic and info about GTV #4
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  #607 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2009, 10:16 AM
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Which is which-

The car that Oskar used to own is still on the west coast in blue #4 Pepsi livery. If you want I can contact the owner and confirm it's brass tag number. I think the car that was crashed and cut-up was the ex-Samson car. Not sure but I think Oskar had owned the "Pepsi" car for quite awhile. Not sure of the ownership trail of the Sam Cummings orange one- Roman probably knows. Fred.
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  #608 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2009, 05:04 PM
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Kwech cars

Hi
As far as I know, the #3 and #4 Kwech cars were for sale in Road & Track with pictures. #3 ended up with Samson/Romero{Samero Racing}. I saw it at Ontario in the 1975? IMSA race where the Bobcor Montreal showed up. It went to Camelot Historics for restoration to the Orange Kwech livery and then to Sam. Roman did a more correct restoration and Sam still has it.
I think that Oskie Feldman had the #4 for a long time, then it went to the west coast and is blue, as you say. Perhaps the one that Anthony's Dad cut up was the #2 that became the Parkinson car. I'll see if I have slides from the Ontario race.
Keith
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  #609 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2009, 11:43 PM
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The Parkinson and the Baumgartner GTV1750 is the same 1971 TransAm car. Both had the same adress in the ad and written on Don Parkinson's truck (1275 E. Yorba Linda Blvd., Placentia, California). This Kwech car was advertised in 197207 Road & Track Magazine.

The second and third 1971 Wetson GTV1750s are no. 2, driven by Bert Everett (the Salemi photo), and no. 4 by Harry T. Both cars were accidented at Watkins Glen, and one or both cars could have been replaced. Other race reports from 1971 and 1972 list damages but no accidents for Wetson's cars (SCCA 2.5 Challenge).

All three 1971 cars were orange-red. One of those cars is said to have been run into a wall at Riverside in about 1975, parted out and shreddered by the Rimicci bros' father. Yorba Linda? Riverside? Rimicci? It's all in California!

In 1972 the two Wetson cars were blue GTV2000 with big rear lights.
The Samson car was still blue with no. 3, when he purchased it with Romero directly from Kwech after the 1972 season, and picked it up in Amarillo, Texas (see Alfa Owner 198011). Samson kept it until 1985. It was featured in 199604 European car (owner Tom Hart). It was restored by Camelot Historic Cars and returned to the "original 1971" configuration (!). Now it is owned by Sam Cummings, still with big rear lights and modified filler cap.

The second 1972 GTV2000 with no. 4 (Harry T.) could be the blue Shelly Zide car. It has full 1972 livery but is announced as a 1971 Wetson GTV1750, only modified for 1972.
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  #610 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2009, 06:30 AM
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Hi All,
I'm being told by a knowledgeable source that the Camelot restoration consisted of a quick orange paint job, leaving all the later mods in place. When Sam bought it, he and Roman researched the car extensively and returned it to the correct 71 spec, both mechanically and cosmetically.
Question to Ken??
You mention in 1970 that Kwech ran GTA's, looking like GTV's. Do you know what he did to affect this change? Are there any photos of these cars? Was it to skirt the rules, or just update the appearance?
Keith
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  #611 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2009, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAUGNUT1275 View Post
Hi All,
I'm being told by a knowledgeable source that the Camelot restoration consisted of a quick orange paint job, leaving all the later mods in place. When Sam bought it, he and Roman researched the car extensively and returned it to the correct 71 spec, both mechanically and cosmetically.
Question to Ken??
You mention in 1970 that Kwech ran GTA's, looking like GTV's. Do you know what he did to affect this change? Are there any photos of these cars? Was it to skirt the rules, or just update the appearance?
Keith
Hi Keith,

short answer is it has been touched on and at least one picture (see attached first pic) at Riverside 1970 uploaded somewhere in this 41 page epilog. There was speculation as to the reason in the thread.



Ken
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Ken Geiger, Toronto
1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream

Last edited by kengta; 08-26-2013 at 03:14 PM. Reason: To remove some possible misleading info and pictures
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  #612 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2009, 02:36 PM
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Kwech car

Hi
OK, now I see!! The 4th photo, by the way, is Lime Rock. Susan took a similar photo with the ramp truck. A friend of ours who lived on Long Island, at the time claims to have built up that truck for Herb Wetson, out of a UHaul truck.
I wonder if it's still around?
Thanks,
Keith
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:48 AM
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Autoweek retraction regarding Sebring 1966 TA winner

Here is an interesting retraction printed by Autoweek in 1969. In my review of old issues I noticed the erroneous claim that Bob Tullius had won the first Trans-Am then I found the attached retraction with a new photo of the Rindt GTA. These old Autoweek issue are a real treasure trove of history. Now who was the Alfista that called Autoweek back in 1969 and set them straight?
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1965 RHD GTA Corsa Ex Horst Kwech 1966 Trans-Am and B-Sedan Champion

Last edited by CanAmBob; 04-24-2009 at 08:50 AM.
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  #614 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2009, 04:07 PM
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Here's a picture of a Wetson GTV at Laguna Seca. Most likely Kwech in that most famous of TA duels in 1971. The picture was printed in the June 1972 Olympia Sprints Laguna Seca Race Program. I've posted a pdf of the programs hi-lites in the GTA forum.

Ciao Ken
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Ken Geiger, Toronto
1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream
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Old 10-20-2009, 05:35 PM
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George Alderman

I have been in contact with George Alderman recently. George co-drove, with Paul Richards, GTA 752507 in 3 or maybe 4 races in 1966, for the owner Baker and Heijn.

He has confirmed that some pictures I have of 752507 in 1966 show Paul Richards at the wheel and one is of Paul in the pits at Sebring. He spoke of Paul having to finish the race at VIR with a broken loose seat.

George also confirmed that Paul Richards is deceased, but not so long ago as I had previously thought. He also thought Howard Hanna to still be with us having met a family member recently.

George also sent me a picture of a Fuel can used to re-fuel 752507 in 1966.

George was on Mustang in the 1967 T/A and raced other Alfa powered racers in other years. The Mustang has been a recent "barn find" as is back in George's family's possession.

ciao

Ken
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Ken Geiger, Toronto
1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream
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