Alfa's In Trans Am - Page 21 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

  #301 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007, 09:24 AM
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Post 240 is definitley Riverside Raceway
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Paul Van Der Linden

Currently: 70 Giulia Ti 2.0L

Formerly:
(1) 58 spider
(2) 67 duetto's
(4) 67 super's
(2) 67 gtv's
(1) 70 gtam
(2) 74 gtv's
(1) 78 spider
(1) 82 spider
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  #302 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007, 10:08 AM
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Great Reserch

Quote:
Originally Posted by martinue View Post
The ex Norman GTA was raced in the 1969 Laguna Seca TransAm race by Steve Griswold and had the later well known green livery with starting number 58. My first mention for Norman himself is the 1970 Riverside TransAm, the car was entered by Griswold & Co.

In that 1969 Laguna Seca race, Vic Provenzano raced a red GTA, which could be the car pictured in post #240 (the photo is not exhaustive).

Attachment 61668

But this could mean the pics in post #240 are indeed from the Riverside TransAm race in late 1969 (Rick, please check the background again). Otherwise it is possible that the undated Provenzano pic of the white GTA which I reposted in #281 is from the 1968 race. Vintage Motorsport #6/1995 has a pic of that car, too, but the front panel is not so much damaged.

Martin
Martin, thank you for posting the image from the 1969 Laguna Seca race,
showing the green paint on # 58. Jon Norman told me last week they R+R'ed the firewall with a new one without Vin# after a shunt @ Sears Point in 1970.
I'm hopeful I will be able to recover a Vin # from the Griswold/ Jon Norman
records, if any.
I've yet to find the Joe Lacario colors from the 1966 VIR TransAm
race on #17 before the car passed to Griswold/Norman.
All the Best, Don.
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  #303 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA # 14 View Post
Martin, thank you for posting the image from the 1969 Laguna Seca race,
showing the green paint on # 58. Jon Norman told me last week they R+R'ed the firewall with a new one without Vin# after a shunt @ Sears Point in 1970.
I'm hopeful I will be able to recover a Vin # from the Griswold/ Jon Norman
records, if any.
I've yet to find the Joe Lacario colors from the 1966 VIR TransAm
race on #17 before the car passed to Griswold/Norman.
All the Best, Don.
Hi Don,

There is a pic of a White RHD GTA with what could be #17 sitting on the start grid in a pic on the VIR web site. Martin U in post 293 has attributed #17 to be a RHD based on I'm guessing this pic. (Martin please advise if different source. )


It is also interesting to note that Jim Baker is shown as #1 at VIR 1966, in what appears to be a red RHD GTA and shows up else where in white or beige #11, #37. This is a possiblity of 2 different RHD GTAs as some information indicated he took delivery of 2 from the ARI Race program. Or has the red one been repainted beige?

Ciao

Ken
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1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream

Last edited by kengta; 01-02-2008 at 01:43 PM.
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  #304 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007, 02:19 PM
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White RHD GTA

Thanks Ken, When I did a paint probe in the door jam area fo my car 25 years
ago, I found the paint was 1.factory primer base, 2.white 3.red.4. bright green.5.then Dave Veger's red.
This info is inline with the cars driver list. 1.Joe Locario 2.Griswold/Jon Norman
3. Dave Vegher. ( Then Me).
Thanks for the help.
Cheers, Don.
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  #305 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinue View Post
Since the Alfas were required to bolt on ballast for TransAm races because of their TwinCam engine, it is possible that Midgley decided to use the cheaper steel fenders instead of the original alloy ones. Do you know who sold and bought it in 1986?
Interesting take on the steel fenders. I got some photos of the car as kind of a barn find in a garage in Pasadena. The photos are from August 1986. I believe that is around the time the Midgley car was sold by Jim (no last name) that was referred to me as Lee's partner to Foster Turner who owned the Al Brizard car that later went to Charlie Thierrot and was subsequently crashed by him after it was owned by Roman Tucker. I also have an SCCA C-Sedan homologation document that came with the Midgley car that is dated as "Revised 5/14/73" and "Revised 8/16/74 Intake Port Dimension" suggesting that the Midgley car must have had a carrer in C-Sedan after 1974.

On another note on Alfa correspondence to the original US GTA owners/racers (I believe all RHD cars) dated April 24, 1967 the following 6 owners are noted:

John Shankle
Vic Provenzana (sp)
Al Brizard
Hal Mayfield
Joe Locario (Southwest Motors)
Noel Armstrong (B & E Automotive Engineering)

If I ever get my scanner working again I will try to post some neat stuff from Don Black such as the "Sebring Follow-Up - GTA" and maybe another few bits of old paper I have lying around.
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  #306 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007, 06:44 PM
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RIR, yes / TransAm, no

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage prep View Post
Post 240 is definitley Riverside Raceway
Just to set the record straight, I checked original 35mm slides from my Post #240 (slide images are clear) as well others in that stack, all date stamped Nov68. Comparing cars and numbers with the roster and results below, I confirmed my pic of Provenzano's #85 was indeed taken at the November 1968 American Road Race of Champions (ARRC) as Rick suggested was the case several days ago.

Jeff

A few pictures included - BS Race #2:
#84 Porsche 911 - Alan Johnson - finished P1 (author of "Driving in Competition")
#85 Alfa GTA - Vic Provenzano - DNF

And in AS Race #3:
#52 Camaro - Dick Lang - finished P1
#53 Mustang - Jim Harrell - P8
#63 Camaro - Larry Wilcox - P12

http://www.virhistory.com/cars/arrc/1968-entry.htm
http://www.virhistory.com/cars/arrc/scans/68-res-1.jpg
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  #307 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007, 10:06 AM
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00502/A 18591 motor

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAmBob View Post
Martin there may be errors in the Alleggerita book. When the book was written the author did not have the benefit of the internet and some people did not contribute that should have, hence he did the best he could.

The ARI letter Dated 4-4-1986 from Don Black that I have in my possession states "GTA 752.573 was sold to Knauz by me in March 1967 with original motor 00502/A-18591"

This is what I know as of today. Perhaps the owners of 573 and 536 can come forward and fill in the rest of the history.

I encourage all owners of significant race Alfa's to do diligence on their individual ownership and race history while the drivers and owners are still with us. The FIA is now involved in historical provenance and is setting a high standard for proof of a given S/N.

As to the photo in post #10 from 1967 I am not sure about its Serial number. We need to know the race date and then with help from others perhaps we can identify the S/N. A reasonable guess would be that it was either 573 or 536 as they were delivered in 1967. Until we know for sure it is speculation as to it's S/N

Bob
I just happened to look at my engine block and realized that I have the engine (block at least) stated in the above referenced Don Black's letter. The bottom end with a detached reduced port gta head came as part of my GTA basket case. The seller stated that this motor was last built by Ron Neal and possibly used by Horst Kwech in a few northwest races. That's all I know for now. I have since rebuilt the motor ready to install in the restored chassis. I am certainly more curious now about the motor's history prompting another conversation with the seller very soon. I’ve attached photos of the chassis (raced by Dave Burns in the ’71 Laguna Seca Trans AM) as I got it, currently in restoration and the finished motor/gearbox. Again, and according to the seller, the close ratio short gears/shafts (and very used, at that) came from Lee Midgley.

Rich
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  #308 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by type 32 View Post
I just happened to look at my engine block and realized that I have the engine (block at least) stated in the above referenced Don Black's letter. The bottom end with a detached reduced port gta head came as part of my GTA basket case. The seller stated that this motor was last built by Ron Neal and possibly used by Horst Kwech in a few northwest races. That's all I know for now. I have since rebuilt the motor ready to install in the restored chassis. I am certainly more curious now about the motor's history prompting another conversation with the seller very soon. I’ve attached photos of the chassis (raced by Dave Burns in the ’71 Laguna Seca Trans AM) as I got it, currently in restoration and the finished motor/gearbox. Again, and according to the seller, the close ratio short gears/shafts (and very used, at that) came from Lee Midgley.

Rich
Rich the owner of 752.573 would probably have a strong interest in your engine. In the world of purpose built race cars e.g. Can-Am, the engines were sometimes changed at every race and almost no current owner has their original engine. The crew chiefs even called them spacers to show their contempt the part. I once had a gentleman try to interest me in the 540 ci Reynolds block that Denny had run in my M-20 at Riverside in 1972 trying to get the pole. The block was cracked and had been repaired. I couldn't get him to understand that it had no value in vintage racing as the Reynolds blocks tended to crack easily. In Production based race cars people value the original engines a lot more. My current GTA engine block is unnumbered and I have been told to put it aside and build another engine.

I am sorry I sold one of the Reynolds Big Blocks that I picked up along the way as it would have made a great wine rack. The M-20 is also gone but not forgotten.

Bob
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  #309 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by type 32 View Post
I just happened to look at my engine block and realized that I have the engine (block at least) stated in the above referenced Don Black's letter. The bottom end with a detached reduced port gta head came as part of my GTA basket case. The seller stated that this motor was last built by Ron Neal and possibly used by Horst Kwech in a few northwest races. That's all I know for now. I have since rebuilt the motor ready to install in the restored chassis. I am certainly more curious now about the motor's history prompting another conversation with the seller very soon. I’ve attached photos of the chassis (raced by Dave Burns in the ’71 Laguna Seca Trans AM) as I got it, currently in restoration and the finished motor/gearbox. Again, and according to the seller, the close ratio short gears/shafts (and very used, at that) came from Lee Midgley.

Rich
Some other Original Engine serial numbers related to the chassis.

RHD GTA 752 503 engine 19158
RHD GTA 752 507 engine 18600
RHD GTA 752 533 engine 19481

I would be very happy to here of the where abouts of engine block 18600.

Regards

Ken
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1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream
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  #310 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007, 02:53 PM
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Gus Andrey on LHD #26 and Kweck on #3 at Mid Ohio 1971

Attached are 2 pics of Gaston (Gus) Andrey on LHD GTA #26 at the Mid Ohio T/A in 1971. These Pics were provided to me by A. Smith.

Andrey ran three events in 1971. Placing 5th at LIme Rock, First at Briar and third at Mid Ohio. I have entry sheets for 2 of these races showing him on #26. I don't know if he ran all 3 races in this GTA.

Also note that both SCCA and Frank de Jong list Andrey on GTV at Mid Ohio so it is possible that #26 did not race but only practice at Mid Ohio.

Notice the roll cage detail. Any others photos of this GTA (or maybe its a GTAj Chassis) out there. Where is it today??

Regards

Ken Geiger
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1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream
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  #311 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2007, 05:09 AM
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Post #305 by Alleggerita

John Shankle’s car can be seen in the 1966 Green Valley photo from the Alleggerita book. It was LHD. Since Lee Midgley’s GTA #613217 was entered in the 1970 season by John Shankle, and there is no record for this car before, it is very obvious that Shankle’s 1966 car which is mentioned in post #305 is #613217

Hal Mayfield from Richardson/Texas, raced a GTA in 1966 together with Lloyd Burghagen; in 1970 he was first in class (CSedan) at San Marcus, Texas, with a GTAJ
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  #312 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2007, 12:27 PM
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In post #310 by KenGTA, note the tail lights on the back of the Wetson's #4 GTV. They appear to be the smaller ones like those found on 65-69 GTV/GTA. The two remaining Wetson's GTV's both have the later 71-74 tail lights. Were there more than three Weston GTV's? Were the cars eventually converted to the later tail lights? Could that be that the third Weston's car which my dad cut up and threw in a dumpster after it smacked a wall at Riverside back in 1975?
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  #313 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2007, 08:14 AM
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St. Jovite Trans Am 1969

I noticed the pictures I posted early on have disappeared. Here they are again... not the greatest shots but..
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74 GTV Race Car, 73 GTV

Last edited by GTV4EVR; 04-01-2007 at 08:17 AM.
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  #314 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2007, 08:20 AM
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More 69 St. Jovite

Here are a couple more. I figured I'd include the "after" shot of the Mustang because of the driver
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  #315 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2007, 06:03 PM
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Tom Hines

Does anyone know how to reach Tom Hines, a GTA driver of past.

Thanks
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