Fiat 1100 B Sirca Milano?

[dott.cisitalia]

Anywone know anything about this car?. I found it in Buenos Aires.
I think it is posible that this car may be a Fiat 1100 B fuoriserie of Sirca (office of Ghia in Milano).
Motore # 353435 telaio # 315204.
All the best,
Dr. Sergio A. Lugo.[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]

[biz5300]

Hello again.... well the picture you posted is definitly the Sirca Ghia at the concorso dell'eleganza 1949.. the same car? Is it saveable?
It is called the 1100 Gioello, made by Ghia. Sirca made a few cars afterwards but notexactly the same. Ill post a pic.. Nik

[biz5300]

Well, it is NOT the same example anyway as the car on the pic from the concorso d'eleganza, the instrumaentation is different. Ghia made a couple it seems( according to 1100 Fuoriseria, Sannia) and Sirca a few more. Shall I scan in a Sirca picture?The front is slightly different from the ghia. But your cars front is not really visible..

[dott.cisitalia]

Hello, Nik:

Thanks for your answer.
Have you any information about the Abarth 205 Sirca # 231 in the 1000 Miglia 1951.
H. Lothaller-Anzenbacher?.
Thanks, Sergio Lugo. Dott Cisitalia.

[dott.cisitalia]

Following the very interesting dialogue:
I think that with the accurately study of the center and the right side of the dashboard of the 2 cars, the big and small holes are the same.
Around the steering column and the left side of the dashboard in the argentine car are modificated with the attaché of more not original holes.
All the best,
Dr. Sergio A. Lugo.

[biz5300]

Looking into your question now, Interesting this.. :-)

[biz5300]

Hi again Sergio, IF I may say so, I coulldnt find any pictures of them in ant book, nor anywhere on the race sites.. But I like a challenge so I actually spent all night looking on the web... ( I am nuts.. I know) and here we are, Lothaller in the Abarth 205, the dark red car, 1951 is the year and race is Mille Miglia, 231 is race number. Text says that they never started the race though... I am happy :-)

[dretceterini]

In 1950 there are two Abarth berlinas listed as Tipo 204. Race number 533 has an aerodynamic nose and tail added, but race number 630 appears to be identical to the car pictured aboove, but it was painted silver (or bare metal) in 1950. Is the car pictured above a 204 or 205? I am not sure of all the detail differences between the two Tipos.

[1,6 HF]

Nik, here's a version of your photo with some color correction:

[dott.cisitalia]

Dear Nik:

Thanks and congratulations. You are a "fantastic nut" because I have 2 books Mille Miglia Race, The Postwar Years by Giorgio Nada in english and in italian, but I didn't remember the photo of the Abarth Sirca.
Which would be the diference of this Abarth?. In the mechanic or in the body?.
Many years ago I read in Automobil Revue an announcement of the 205 Spyder for sale.
Could be this car the Abarth Vignale Spyder # 105?.
Lamentably, I lost the announcement.
Regards, Sergio.

[dretceterini]

The 204 has a tube chassis, but does the 205 have a platform chassis, like a 207?

[iicarJohn]

SIRCA was simply a dealership in Milano that was owned (or at least directed) by Alfredo Pallavidini. SIRCA advertised a few times in the 1940's and 1950's as having exclusive distribution rights to certain Ghia-bodied models. It would be a bit of an extreme interpretation to assign a lot of significance to the SIRCA name even if it did appear a few times as part of the official record as a named builder of some specific cars. There is no indication that S.I.R.C.A. actually did any car building themselves.

John de Boer

Incidently, S.I.R.C.A. = Societa Italiana Rappresentanze Commercio Automobili

[iicarJohn]

Sergio,

I have collected five chassis numbers of similar Fiat 1100 Ghia "Gioiello" cars to date. This includes the car that you have found which is new to my files. I suspect that there are quite a number of additional examples that were built and I'm sure that some additional examples could be identified with minimal efforts.

John

[biz5300]

an old ad for the sirca 1100 turned up today on ebay..

[iicarJohn]

A body number had more than one purpose. It could be used to direct and track any customization details requested by the client. It acted as a billing number for work done. It helped to identify parts that were hand-fitted to the car so that the part could be easily returned and fitted to the same car after a finishing process such as polishing, plating or upholstery.

The body number on Ghia bodied cars (of the early 1950's anyway) can often be found scratched on the reverse side of the chassis ID plate. The number often appears on the body itself, stamped near the bonnet (hood) latch. Otherwise, it is found sporadically throughout trim on the car. It can be scratched, stamped or penned on hidden portions of trim parts.

Numbers found so far imply that each style of body is numbered in individual series but the numbering is not always easy to interpret. Finding the body number sometimes tells us where the individual body falls with respect to other similarly bodied cars. It is sometimes possible to determine if the car is the first, second, third, etc. to be started but may not tell us when it was finished with respect to another.

Examples:

Ghia #272 Fiat 1100E*331449 berlinetta (1949)

Ghia #111 Ferrari 340 coupe N. 0142/AL (1951)

Ghia #2005 Fiat 1400 cabriolet N. 101*020749 (1952)

Ghia #116 Alfa Romeo 1900C*01505 (1953)
Ghia #121 Alfa Romeo 1900C*01742 (1954)

The Fiat 8V cars had chassis origins in 1953.
Some bodies built 1953 and some in 1954.
Ghia #801 Fiat 8V coupe "Supersonic" N. 106*000035
Ghia #803 Fiat 8V coupe "Supersonic" N. 106*000037
Ghia #804 Fiat 8V coupe "Supersonic" N. 106*000041
Ghia #806 Fiat 8V coupe "Supersonic" N. 106*000039
Ghia #807 Fiat 8V coupe "Supersonic" N. 106*000040
Ghia #808 Fiat 8V coupe "Supersonic" N. 106*000043
Ghia #10 Fiat 8V coupe "Supersonic" N. 106*000049
Ghia #11 Fiat 8V coupe "Supersonic" N. 106*000053
Ghia #813 Fiat 8V coupe "Supersonic" N. 106*000055
Ghia #814 Fiat 8V coupe "Supersonic" N. 106*000056

Ghia #88 Fiat 8V coupe (disegno deriv. Exner) 106*000042

Ghia #3417 Ghia 1500GT N. 116*0322502 (1963/64 ??)

Additional numbers would help us all figure out what can be learned.