Lancia Fulvia 1.2 HF...

[Timo]

...for your viewing pleasure...I wish it were summer!

Timo

[BKCowGod]

Oof... That's hot. Now I need one of those to park next to my Maserati 3500, Jag XJ6, Range Rover, Ferrari 400i, Alfa Spider, BMW 2002, and Skyline.

Will someone give me a lot of money?

[rloewy]

Hi,

Wondering if anyone knows the current valuation of the 1200or 1300HF - there is one that I am thinking about - and knowing current values would be helpful.

Thanks.

[Alex]

Richard Thorne in the UK (www.rtcc.co.uk) has been trying to shift an identical-looking car for as long as I can remember, a 1.3 Rallye 'S'. There must be something wrong with it, or it's priced too high at around £13k sterling. Check out www.omicron.uk.com or www.viva-lancia.com too.

Alex.

[rloewy]

Thanks. I might be wrong - but I think that the Rallye even in S format are not an HF - the HF had the ligher body, usually perspex windows and very hot engines - a bit like the GTA vs the GTV in the Alfa world. The HF did not have fenders as can be seen in the picture, as well.

[GiuliaSprintGT]

rloewy is right, the HF is like a GTA compared to a "normal" GT.
The weight of a 1,2 HF is 1145 kg, while a normal 1,2 is 1270 kg (but the Sport Zagato aluminum body 1,2 is even lighter, about 1075 kg!!!).
The engine of the 1,2 HF has 8 HP (Cuna) more than the normal 1,2. But most of the HFS had tuned-up engines, for racing purpose.
The HF pictured above is one of the rare RHD HF 1200.
Only 488 1,2 HF have been built and many few of them were RHD.
The wheelarches of this HF have been enlarged with the original fender flares because this car has the very rare Campagnolo 13" alloy wheels (the stock ones were steel 14").
It's a very nice car, the current valuation of a good 1200 HF (in Italy) is more than 15.000 euros (approx. 18.000 USD). Just to compare the prices, a good 1,2 coupè (not HF) is valued "only" 7.000 euros.
Here in Italy it's quite easy to find a nice and not too rusty coupè, but the risk to find a fake HF is still very high: it's not so difficult to "clone" a HF, starting from a normal 1,2/1,3. Be careful.. I remember I have seen a fake 1,6 HF "fanalone" for sale on ebay, sold at the same price of an original one.
To know more, I suggest you the multilanguage forum of www.viva-lancia.com, very complete and full of classified ads for fulvias.
ciao!

[rloewy]

Antonio, thanks for the valuation information. I think you got the weights wrong - what I have is a lot lighter - see http://www.alma.it/vanzettip/fulvia/fulviae.html for details - specifically http://www.alma.it/vanzettip/fulvia/eng/Fulvia.hf.html

Also - it seems that the HF were lighter than the Sport Zagato - including the 1200 with the Aluminum body.

As for the car in question - it is actually an interesting car - it is actually a 1300HF body with a 1200HF engine. I am pretty certain this is the real deal - all the right stamping are in there.

[GiuliaSprintGT]

rloewy, thanks for your quick reply! The weight I wrote is referred to a fully loaded car, (4 people + 40 kg of luggage) as reported on Lancia books. On the site of Peo Vanzetti (I know him!) the weight is net. You're right, it's much better to consider the net weight...!
Why not trying to look for a 1,3 HF engine, maybe here in Italy? Perhaps someone would be very interested in that 1,2 engine..
ciao

[rloewy]

Let's not put the cart before the horses yet

If I am lucky and purchase this car - an engine change will be something I will consider...

[everso]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiuliaSprintGT rloewy is right, the HF is like a GTA compared to a "normal" GT. The weight of a 1,2 HF is 1145 kg, while a normal 1,2 is 1270 kg (but the Sport Zagato aluminum body 1,2 is even lighter, about 1075 kg!!!). The engine of the 1,2 HF has 8 HP (Cuna) more than the normal 1,2. But most of the HFS had tuned-up engines, for racing purpose. The HF pictured above is one of the rare RHD HF 1200. Only 488 1,2 HF have been built and many few of them were RHD. The wheelarches of this HF have been enlarged with the original fender flares because this car has the very rare Campagnolo 13" alloy wheels (the stock ones were steel 14"). It's a very nice car, the current valuation of a good 1200 HF (in Italy) is more than 15.000 euros (approx. 18.000 USD). Just to compare the prices, a good 1,2 coupè (not HF) is valued "only" 7.000 euros. Here in Italy it's quite easy to find a nice and not too rusty coupè, but the risk to find a fake HF is still very high: it's not so difficult to "clone" a HF, starting from a normal 1,2/1,3. Be careful.. I remember I have seen a fake 1,6 HF "fanalone" for sale on ebay, sold at the same price of an original one. To know more, I suggest you the multilanguage forum of www.viva-lancia.com, very complete and full of classified ads for fulvias. ciao!

[rloewy]

Well, I drove this car yesterday, and I have no doubts that this is the real deal. I drove my 7 down there and this car was louder and almost as hard core as my 7 - despite the fact that it has a roof and I was not freezing in it - The chassis number confirms it as the real deal.

The good things - it is a delight to drive. I would say that at this point in time I think this was the best FWD car I ever drove. My memory is maybe getting a bit foggy on the experience I had in the past with a couple of FWD cars I enjoyed - a 205 1.9 GTI and an Alfa Sud - because of the long time that passed since these drives - so maybe this is not accurate - but I do belive that this car was a step above these cars I mentioned - and I think that these were the best FWD cars I drove until then - much nicer than modern well regarded FWD cars like the Integra Type-R and new MINI Cooper.

However - I do not think I will buy this car. It is a 1300HF chassis with a 1200HF engine - the car is titled as a 1966 - but the chassis number should make it a 1968. So - it was either titled based on the engine which I suspect is wrong for the car - or it was some strange mule from the factory with the 1300HF chassis and one of the last 1200HF engines. I have no idea - but without documentation - it is just the wrong engine for the car.

The vendor has seen the Innes Ireland car that was sold in August in the Carmel, CA auction - that car brought around $48K with fees - but it was a real works car, with documented history, the right engine and it was a 1600HF (818.540 chassis number). Based on this information the vendor has a price that I belive to be "optimistic" - especially based on the recent prices that were observed in Italy for 1200HF and 1300HFs - the Viva-Lancia forum seems to confirm the valuation Antonio provided.

With that said - I have to ask myself if it is worth to pay the price asked - and I am not sure it is. I would not mind overpaying a thousand or two - the car is local so I will not have to pay to ship it as you usually have to do with collector cars - but the asking price is more than that in difference.

My goal for this car (or any other classic car I will buy in the near future) is to replace the 7 with something that is still (very) sporty - but maybe a tad less hard core than the 7. But, as I was driving home after the delightful drive in the Lancia - I was pushing the 7 and I still think that as a pure driving machine - it is even better than the Lancia - not to mention a lot faster. So - overpay for a car that is almost as uncomfortable as the 7, has the wrong engine and is not as much fun to drive? I am not sure I am comfortable with it.

Honestly, for the price asked - I can probably find a nice Giulia Sprint GT and a nice Fulvia Sport Zagato - and I suspect that with the larger 1.3 engine the sport Zagato will not be much slower if at all from this car.

[johnei]

I believe I know someone with a 1.3 HF engine in CA that's waiting for a good home. I'm pretty sure he still has it but anyways let me know if you want further info.

I'm curious is this the bright yellow car that has appeared on ebay recently - I think its offered by a jaguar dealer somewhere in the northwest. Its setup for road rallys.

[GiuliaSprintGT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by everso didn't the Fulvias come in Series 1, 2, and 3 of HF models? alof of the "fake" HFs you are talking about aren't really fake.....they are probably just series 2 HF models. The Series 2 and 3 HF models were good cars, BUT they weren't as hardcore as the Series 1 HF models. They were more for the commercial market and were meant to commemorate Lancia's racing past..........at least that's what i've read when i researched the car

[everso]

ahh, thank you for clarifying that, GiuliaSprintGT...i've always been confused just a couple more questions for you....so the 1.6 Fanolone (1st series) HF is the one that everyone wants? that's the more expensive version? whenever i see a picture of an HF for sale, i'm always confused about WHICH one i'm looking at. Are there any easy ways to identify which one is which? or is it all about the engine and body construction?

rloewy,
that car you saw sounds pretty strange and interesting. I suppose the only way you could stay interested in it is if you don't really care for matching and originality....if you like the car alot, i suppose you could bite the bullet and still buy it.....but alot of people will probably get turned off by the mixing of engine and chassis. good luck with that decision, although it seems you've already made the choice

CHEERS!

[GiuliaSprintGT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by everso so the 1.6 Fanalone (1st series) HF is the one that everyone wants? that's the more expensive version? whenever i see a picture of an HF for sale, i'm always confused about WHICH one i'm looking at. Are there any easy ways to identify which one is which? or is it all about the engine and body construction?