07-02-2008, 03:50 AM
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Location: Montreal (the city, not the car)
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by 180OUT
A word of warning if you are serious about this car. Flaminia motors have a tendency toward stuck lifters if they've been sitting around for long. So, if it's been sitting, don't try to start it without freeing up the lifters or you could very well end up with bent pushrods (ask me how I know  ). Take the valve covers off and tap each pushrod with a plastic mallet before you turn the motor over. If the owner doesn't know about this, he will be amazed and you will get a better price. |
Ummm. The owner did start it, with a strange clicking noise. It would idle, but not rev. It sounded strange... like it had an exhaust leak, but didn't. Bent pushrod(s) already?
The price on this complete, "almost running" PF coupe is $15,000... isn't that a little high?
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07-02-2008, 05:42 AM
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Well, I don't know the American market that well but that is way too high compared to Europe and the UK. Very good coupes (older restorations, very good original cars) are about $25,000. Cars requiring work are about $7,500.
Compared to Fulvias they are very complicated cars, and restoration costs of the engine, gearbox/final drive and rear suspension can get ferociously expensive (particularly when compared to the value of the car). Given that you describe a "you need to spend some money on the engine" noise I think half of what he is asking would be generous.
The $10k difference between what he is asking and good cars would buy you a set of pistons, rings, pins and liners with maybe change for the gaskets and balancing. If however it is just the exhaust then it begins to look like a $10,000 car I guess, but you need to be very sure.
They are "tool room" cars with all that that entails. Looked after they are a delight and will last and last. Abused they will be a money pit that requires quite specialised attention to bring back on line.
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1969 Lancia Fulvia Fanalone
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07-02-2008, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Ummm. The owner did start it, with a strange clicking noise. It would idle, but not rev. It sounded strange... like it had an exhaust leak, but didn't. Bent pushrod(s) already?
The price on this complete, "almost running" PF coupe is $15,000... isn't that a little high?
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One thing to consider, Yves, is that you have found one of only a handful of these coupes in the entirity of N. America---most were sold and are still in Europe where there is an avid following. Lancia conocenti are much more rare (and infinitely more sensitive, sophisticated, and tasteful individuals because of it ) on this side of the Atlantic than in Europe. So, you are dealing with a car that isn't on most people's "car radar". The guy wants to sell the car. Offer him $7K cash, politely tell him that's all the car is worth to you, and have the money in your pocket. You'd be surprised how stacking up $100 bills in front of someone can become a motivating factor in a sale. (Yes, I know that's rather crass but, what can I say, I'm from Texas after all. )
Another very important factor in these kinds of deals involves determining how much you're going to have to pay to make the car right. If you have a lot of disposable income to throw at the project, then there are some pretty good shops that'll do a good job getting the car ready, but it probably won't be cheap. On the other hand, if you know how to fix cars, enjoy working on them, then this may be a very attractive car to buy. I usually try to discourage people who like cars but don't have lots of money and can't work on them from buying something like this.
Plan on some engine work, probably a complete overhaul (V-6 Lancias are very "Italian" and easy to work on BTW). Also, Flaminia brakes and transaxels are quite complex with lots of odds and ends that are uniquely Lancia---expect to fix these, too. If you can do the work yourself, you'll find that Lancias with their engineering oriented build quality are a delight to take apart and fix. And, once fixed, you can expect to enjoy driving the car for many years afterward. They're very reliable and very robust cars.
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Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
Last edited by 180OUT; 07-02-2008 at 08:46 AM.
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07-02-2008, 10:14 AM
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Jim and others are right on. These cars are marvelous once set up. However, if you cannot do most of the work yourself, it will require a substantial amount of money to do it right.
All mechanical elements are complex and require somebody who really kows these cars. The expert in the US on Flaminias is in SoCal (Tony Nicosia). Spares are available and contacts do exist in the US but sometimes it takes time to source them. If you need to address body work it gets even more expensive.
I have just "refreshed" the mechanical components for a Flaminia that was stored for the last 15 years (Mostly limited to the engine, no break work (Complex), no transmission work (Even more complex)) - not a rebuild at all. Let me just say that cost significantly more than the asking price for the car.
Very lovely cars.
Mike
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[SIZE="1"][COLOR="DimGray"]56 Porsche 356A
61 Lancia Appia Vignale Convertibile
69 Porsche 911S Targa (Soft Window)
72 Junior Z 1600[/COLOR][/SIZE]
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07-02-2008, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yvesmontreal
Ummm. The owner did start it, with a strange clicking noise. It would idle, but not rev. It sounded strange... like it had an exhaust leak, but didn't. Bent pushrod(s) already?
The price on this complete, "almost running" PF coupe is $15,000... isn't that a little high?
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which PF COUPE IS $15,000.00 IS LITTLE HIGH? FLAVIA, FLAMINIA,
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Lancia Fulvia 1.2HF 1966. Lancia Fulvia coupe 1.2 w/1.6HF 1st 1966. Lancia Fulvia Berlina GTE 1.3 1969. Alfa Romeo GTV 2000 1972. WWW.LALANCIA.COM
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07-02-2008, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FANALONE
which PF COUPE IS $15,000.00 IS LITTLE HIGH? FLAVIA, FLAMINIA,
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Adan, they're talking about a Flaminia PF coupe, probably #4 condition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yvesmontreal
Ummm. The owner did start it, with a strange clicking noise. It would idle, but not rev. It sounded strange... like it had an exhaust leak, but didn't. Bent pushrod(s) already?
The price on this complete, "almost running" PF coupe is $15,000... isn't that a little high?
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If the car ran fine, the asking price wouldn't be way out of line--maybe high by about $2k. As it is, it sounds as though the pushrods may already have been bent, which makes Jim's suggestion a good one. In fact you should use the pushrod information as a negotiating point, based on the fact that it won't rev, that's likely the reason, and you need to have the engine worked on immediately.
Jim's right that the car isn't common, but he's slightly underestimating how many Flam PF coupes there are on this side of the ocean--there are at least a dozen...
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Ed
1970 Lancia Fulvia 1,6 HF
Last edited by 1,6 HF; 07-02-2008 at 11:47 AM.
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07-02-2008, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
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Jim's right that the car isn't common, but he's slightly underestimating how many Flam PF coupes there are on this side of the ocean--there are at least a dozen...
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I stand corrected; there are a few more than I thought. What is so interesting to me about the numbers of real Lancias of all kinds that keep turning up is that these cars were both very expensive and esorteric when they were sold new and, yet, some respectable numbers were sold here in the States.
Do you know how many Flaminia Zagatos were sold here?
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Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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07-02-2008, 04:40 PM
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Jim,
Sorry; I was being a bit facetious–even a whole dozen isn’t very many. I don't know how many Flaminia Sports were sold here, but I have some idea how many are here now–I know of about 18 total for all three series, including Mike’s, and there are undoubtedly a few I don't know of.
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Ed
1970 Lancia Fulvia 1,6 HF
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07-03-2008, 03:26 AM
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Flaminia
Thanks everybody. You confirm what I expected: this car is a gamble. I cannot afford the risk at the price asked, and the owner is very rigid about $15K. He claims to have two other interested parties, one being a local Aurelia owner (there are two B20GT's around), the other one being from out of town. I didn't mention it, but the car was acquired from the president of the American Lancia Club in the 90's.
I would LOVE to work on this car, its intricate design is one of the very features that makes it attractive to me.
BTW there used to be a basket case Flaminia Zagato in Quebec. Is it accounted for?
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09-13-2008, 11:44 AM
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Two Fulvias on the 2008 California Melee
Last weekend Jeff Barhoum and I upheld Lancia 's honor by running our Fulvias in the 2008 California Melee. This is an 800+ mile tour for pre-76 cars, run primarily on back roads in Northern California.
This year, there were ~55 cars participating, including a 65 AC Cobra 289, two Alfa Sprint Speciales, assorted 911s and 356s, Sunbeam Tigers, and a wide & interesting variety of other sporting machinery.
The Fulvia is a superb car for an event like this. It handles on bad roads much better (IMHO) than a lot of higher horsepower'd vehicles, which allowed us to keep up -- and sometimes surprise -- the others. And it's comfortable enough that I could still walk at the end of a long day.
The snapshots my spouse and I took over the three days are up at:
Fulvia cam
Regards
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Shaun Pond
1967 Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1.3
1962 Austin Healey 3000
Last edited by shaunpond; 09-13-2008 at 11:46 PM.
Reason: fixed typo
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09-13-2008, 06:03 PM
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Shaun,
Looks like a great event. Thanks for the pix, and thanks to you and Jeff for flying the Lancia flag.
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Ed
1970 Lancia Fulvia 1,6 HF
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09-14-2008, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaunpond
Last weekend Jeff Barhoum and I upheld Lancia 's honor by running our Fulvias in the 2008 California Melee. This is an 800+ mile tour for pre-76 cars, run primarily on back roads in Northern California.
This year, there were ~55 cars participating, including a 65 AC Cobra 289, two Alfa Sprint Speciales, assorted 911s and 356s, Sunbeam Tigers, and a wide & interesting variety of other sporting machinery.
The Fulvia is a superb car for an event like this. It handles on bad roads much better (IMHO) than a lot of higher horsepower'd vehicles, which allowed us to keep up -- and sometimes surprise -- the others. And it's comfortable enough that I could still walk at the end of a long day.
The snapshots my spouse and I took over the three days are up at:
Fulvia cam
Regards |
Well done, Yes the fulvia are very comford to ride long trips, as Ed & I done long drives too, well so you know there a addition to the nothern california fulvia clud I sold my Fulvia Montecarlo to a gentlement in Chico, soon he perhaps will joint the fun drives, thank again for representing Lancia. adan
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Lancia Fulvia 1.2HF 1966. Lancia Fulvia coupe 1.2 w/1.6HF 1st 1966. Lancia Fulvia Berlina GTE 1.3 1969. Alfa Romeo GTV 2000 1972. WWW.LALANCIA.COM
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09-14-2008, 06:49 PM
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[QUOTE=shaunpond;633458]Last weekend Jeff Barhoum and I upheld Lancia 's honor by running our Fulvias in the 2008 California Melee. This is an 800+ mile tour for pre-76 cars, run primarily on back roads in Northern California.
This year, there were ~55 cars participating, including a 65 AC Cobra 289, two Alfa Sprint Speciales, assorted 911s and 356s, Sunbeam Tigers, and a wide & interesting variety of other sporting machinery.
The Fulvia is a superb car for an event like this. It handles on bad roads much better (IMHO) than a lot of higher horsepower'd vehicles, which allowed us to keep up -- and sometimes surprise -- the others. And it's comfortable enough that I could still walk at the end of a long day.
The snapshots my spouse and I took over the three days are up at:
Fulvia cam
Regards[/QUO
You know after seen the fulvia cam, you guys rock, next you have this even I'm in 100% for sure. also I was told that a Flavia from Ira was goin to this even did some one knows what happen? SUPER EVEN FOR ME GOOD BYE CONCORSO, WELCOME MELLE   
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Lancia Fulvia 1.2HF 1966. Lancia Fulvia coupe 1.2 w/1.6HF 1st 1966. Lancia Fulvia Berlina GTE 1.3 1969. Alfa Romeo GTV 2000 1972. WWW.LALANCIA.COM
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09-14-2008, 07:33 PM
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Adan,
You might want to try the SoCalTT - a "sister" event that takes place in your backyard.
Contact Tad (it may be too late for this year - but who knows). There is an email on the webpage with pictures: SoCalTT Home
I don't know if I proudly represented the Lancia flag this year - as I was puttin' along nursing my brakes most of the time !
As someone who has done this event in an Alfetta a couple of times - I have to admit there were more than a few occasions where I wish I had brought it instead of the Fulvia. Some of the roads are H-O-R-R-I-B-L-E, as in potholed plus a high spine running down the center that the Fulvia twice bottomed out on  I'm still trying to get used to the bouncy ride of the leaf springs, which make the Alfa feel positively limousine-like by comparison. Luckily, the weekend before, I swapped out the crippling old seats for a set of fresh new seats from a S3 Fulvia (huge improvement!!), so that wasn't an issue. That being said - the Fulvia always is fun, and I look forward to learning it's preferences and limits in the future.
__________________
Jeff B.
'69 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1,3 S/'92 Ducati 900SS
gone but not forgotten
'79 Alfetta Sprint Veloce/'77 Alfetta Sedan /'76 Alfetta Sedan/'75 Alfetta Sedan
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09-14-2008, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FANALONE
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Adan, I'm with you. Given the option, I'd much rather drive than walk around looking at parked cars.
Jeff and I had the only Lancias on the Melee this year, so I don't know what the story was with the Flavia you mention. I would have loved to have seen one running with us, though.
If you're serious about getting into next year's Melee, start now.
The first step is to contact Jeff (The "Shoog") Guzaitis (one of the organizers, and a Flaminia owner), express interest in next year's event, and join the Melee Yahoo List:
California Melee
The next step is to get your entry in as soon as possible (early August, usually).
The Melee can be a little hard to get into; there is a hard limit to the number of cars they can accept, based on the available rooms at the motels the group stays at and the seating capacity of the restaurant where they have the "thank you for not crashing" dinner at the end of the event.
So they can't accept more than ~55 cars. And it is so much fun that it's always over-subscribed. I think I heard that this year that there were over 30 applicants who did not get accepted.
As Jeff B. points out in his post, a few of the roads on the Melee route are quite rough. I didn't bottom out or ding my Fulvia, but it did develop several new rattles and noises from the pounding it took during the event. But, if this is a major concern, you can check with the organizers and other participants and find alternate routes to the gravel and rough sections.
As Jeff also mentions, the Southern California sister event, the TT500, is likewise supposed to be great driving fun. I haven't done it yet, but I'm looking for a way to get my Fulvia down there to your part of the state to run in that.
Last, if you haven't over-dosed already on Melee pictures, additional pictures from this year's event by participants can be found here:
California Melee XII - a set on Flickr
California Melee XII - September 6th through the 8th, 2008 - San Francisco -> Red Bluff ->Ft. Bragg -> San Francisco
Melee 2008 - a set on Flickr
Picasa Web Albums - Michael - Califormia Me...
Picasa Web Albums - kg23 - California Me...
Hope to see you in one of your Lancias at a future event. Viva Lancia!
p.s. thanks for selling your Monte Carlo to a Northern Californian! Always can use more Lancias up here!
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Shaun Pond
1967 Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1.3
1962 Austin Healey 3000
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