Flaminia Convertibile 3C - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #1 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 05:49 AM Thread Starter
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Flaminia Convertibile 3C

In order not to spoil the other Flaminia Touring threads, some pictures of my special coloured convertible in this new thread.

The colour is azzuro vincennes, which did not appear on the official colour tables. Still it is a colour that was used by Lancia at least on one Convertibile as original paint. The paint was mixed after a scan taken from an original paint sample.

Same with the colour of the interior. A friend of mine cut off a piece of leather from his upholstery, which was hidden from the sun during the decades enabling to chose this vanilla/yellowish colour tone.

Unfortunately I was not able to source a leather of the original gloss. Mine is mat, whereas the old leather has a certain not too strong gloss. The modern type of leather takes away some of the authentic look of the car, but as leather nowadays is processed differently this difference in appearance can hardly be avoided.

On the first picture you can see the three colours the car had in the past.
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Flaminia GT 3C, Flaminia Convertibile 3C, Flavia Convertibile 1.8, A112 Abarth, Flaminia Coupé 2.5, Fulvia Sport 1.3S

Last edited by Tedesco; 06-11-2013 at 06:26 AM.
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post #2 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 09:26 AM
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We discussed a lot about the paint and the leather of the Tourings here, i gave a lot of advices because i personally made a research with G.B. Anderloni in the past: Colori Touring: la risposta ufficiale.

The azzurro Vincennes was a solid colour, included in the Lancia official list, for the sedans in particular, but not for the Touring. The colour on that car, i didn't see it with my eyes, should a be the metallic pale blue adopted on the 2500 convertibles (i reported 6 of them until now) matched with red leather upholstery usually.
Many Touring customers asked for a metallic color because this particular paint was the "plus" of the period, so there are some extra-colours painted cars and few had as a sample a foulard or the lady underwear....However this fact doesn't permit to paint the car in purple, banana yellow, british racing green , carmen red, etc.

The leather adopted by Touring has been produced by the Conceria Franzi in Monza, the first in Europe to tan the leather with vegetable paints in the XX century. The factory closed in the '80s, but in Turin there is a small tannery which owns the original Franzi samples and they can reproduce it very well. I can send you the address in PM.

The wood carpets available were in 2 colours only: light grey and beige. They matched with every colour of the upholstery (beige, black, natural and red) on customer's choice.

Last edited by PG1964; 06-11-2013 at 09:33 AM.
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post #3 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 07:06 PM
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These are just fantastic colors on the Touring convertible, and as Paolo observes the coachbuilder would undoubtedly accommodate a customer's preferences so it is quite legitimate. Had I seen this car a year ago, I might have been more adventurous with the color change on my own car. Bravo.

Upholstery materials present some difficult choices. Just this afternoon I packed away the original materials from my car, and the combination presents a real restoration challenge. Only the seat faces and edge of the backrest are leather. Everything else is vinyl, according to Paolo called Resinflex. Good luck indeed trying to find and match such dissimilar materials today. Replacement with leather throughout is much nicer and vastly easier, so it is not too difficult a decision.

The question them becomes what type of leather. The original Franzi leather is vegetable tanned and surface dyed, very different from the softer vat-dyed leather that is almost universal today. On the impetus of Ferrari owners and restorers, Max Gimmel AG, an ancient tannery in Arbon, Switzerland that supplied many Italian coachbuilders in period, recently resumed production of "Arbotan" surface dyed leather. It is made to order in whatever color, texture and finish is required (agent in the US is Dualoy Leather in NYC, ask for Andrew). I am using Arbotan in a '49 Maserati now in restoration, and cannot overstate how good it is. It is also fairly priced, compared to other sources. This type of leather is thinner but stiffer than typical modern leathers.

Like Hubert I elected to use modern vat-dyed leather in my Flaminia, with a color and texture that very closely matches what the factory installed. To some extent the gloss of the old leather comes from age, but I understand that it is possible to add this with additional finishes. This modern leather is high quality (Bridge of Weir), yet only about half the price of Arbotan. The decisive factor, however, was my upholsterer's strong recommendation against installing surface-dyed leather in a car that will be regularly and actively used.

Lancia used a slightly heavier grade of Resinflex with a felt backing for the cover over the convertible top, in the same color as the interior. Functionally and aesthetically I did not want to use leather for this, so we simply employed convertible top fabric.

Carpets are easier. Thanks to a sample from Kjell, we found an almost perfect match in "Wilton I" carpet made in England for Bill Hirsch Auto. The pile fibers are about 2mm longer than original but this is not noticeable.

Finally, my compliments to Hubert for using the correct cloth binding on the carpets, which seems to be forgotten in many Touring Flaminia restorations.

What color is intended for the wheels ?
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post #4 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 08:53 PM
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That's a striking color combination. It's going to be spectacular when it's done.

It's really encouraging to see Lancias being brought back to a high level.

Ed
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post #5 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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After correcting the last small issues I presented the car to the TÜV, which can be a torture for man and machine (when you try to get a certificate for a car that left the road 35 years ago). The inspector was in a way impressed, but that did not keep him from complaining about the tires, which in his eyes appeared to be winter tires, but did not have the characteristic M+S sign. He was confused, I was sure (that the Michelin 165x400 are definitely what has to be on the rims).

Finally he followed my arguments, but insisted on stamping two approval stamps in front and behind of the id number of the car. I can not describe my feelings watching him hammering around with his embossing tool, talking to himself, "I can´t see anything, have to punch harder ..."

Anyhow, finally I held the expertise in my hands, enabling me to register my absolutely favourite car.(This is to happen on Tuesday, I wonder what the guys at the registration will say, as I only have a very limited assortment of documents)

I went about 400 kms with intermediate number plates, the engine is so smooth, no transaxle vibrations, inlet sound even more exciting than exhaust, you get goose pimples driving this car!!!

Regarding wheel colour, we identified a RAL ivory tone to suit well, but the paint shop missed it.

Meanwhile I found a spare wheel, where we scanned the colour from inside the rim, so I have a very original tin can of correct wheel paint now, only have to take the spare rims to the paint shop.
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Flaminia GT 3C, Flaminia Convertibile 3C, Flavia Convertibile 1.8, A112 Abarth, Flaminia Coupé 2.5, Fulvia Sport 1.3S

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post #6 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 02:30 PM
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What a great looking car!

1960 Lancia Flaminia PF Coupe 2.5, 1967 Fiat Moretti Sportiva, 1967 OSI 20m TS, 1967 Lancia Fulvia Coupe 1.2, 1968 Lancia Flavia 1.8i
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post #7 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-30-2013, 06:15 AM
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Congratulations Hubert ! And good luck on Tuesday.

The regulatory contrast with the US is striking. Here every state is different, but where I register most of my cars, all you need to obtain "historic" plates is $44 and two photos. There are no inspections whatsoever and registration renewals are free. The local police might take issue if they see a car on historic plates driven every day, but otherwise the approach might be called "Darwinian".

Again my compliments on your color choices and the obviously high quality of your work. Thanks for the photos.
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post #8 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-30-2013, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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Don,

you seem to live in paradise regarding these things. Over here, the inspector measures the dimensions of the car, he does not rely on what can be found in books or other documents. Finally they measure the stand-noise level at 4200 prm, cowering in your jetwash holding the gauge!!! They are completely crazy. At that moment I felt easy giving him a bit more than he was asking for.

I have done some work on front suspension and engine overhaul. Will post photos ...


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Flaminia GT 3C, Flaminia Convertibile 3C, Flavia Convertibile 1.8, A112 Abarth, Flaminia Coupé 2.5, Fulvia Sport 1.3S

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post #9 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-30-2013, 08:33 AM
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Hi Hubert, congratulations on a great looking car!

I have never heard of anybody making changes or stamping additional information to chassis numbers under FIVA or any other rules -- as it flies in the face of period correctness. Can you show pictures of what he did?

BTW, the upside of German and Swiss authorities being so anal about period correctness is reflected in their resale value. I believe cars that lived and were inspected and licensed in those country currently achieve significantly higher values than cars from North America or elsewhere in the world.

-Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, now a restomod in Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).
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post #10 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-30-2013, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Ruedi,

the body workshop removed the original number, although it was well preserved and readable, because they had to cut away the driprail. After that they stamped the number in the new driprail.

This is ok, but has to be documented in the official papers of the car, which is also understandable and ok in respect to originality.

But here in Germany in this case the formal procedure is, that the traffic licensing department gives an assignment to the TÜV, to confirm and border the newly stamped number.

In my opinion the aim is, to make it difficult to turn replicas into original cars, which of course nobody dares to do, especially with Bugattis, Ferraris and others :-).


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Flaminia GT 3C, Flaminia Convertibile 3C, Flavia Convertibile 1.8, A112 Abarth, Flaminia Coupé 2.5, Fulvia Sport 1.3S
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post #11 of 93 (permalink) Old 06-30-2013, 11:30 AM
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Beautiful Flaminia ( reminds me on my former GT 3 C )

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which of course nobody dares to do, especially with Bugattis, Ferraris and others
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post #12 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-01-2013, 06:11 AM
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A very nice jobs, especially the chromes. I have a doubt about the wheel only, the colour is too light in my opinion.
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post #13 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-01-2013, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedesco View Post
Over here, the inspector measures the dimensions of the car, he does not rely on what can be found in books or other documents. Finally they measure the stand-noise level at 4200 prm, cowering in your jetwash holding the gauge!!! They are completely crazy. At that moment I felt easy giving him a bit more than he was asking for.
Our rules are different, but the mentality of inspectors is the same. Years ago when 'sealed beam' headlights were required in the US, I took for inspection my everyday car in which I had installed some of the new European H-4 units. After the inspector noticed how bright they were on high beam, he and a colleague strained for several minutes to read the markings on the glass, staring directly into the lights from inches away. I was too dumbfounded and amused to turn them off. The inspector was barely able to write the failure notice after staggering back to his desk.
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post #14 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 05:00 PM
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Truly a car enthusiast! Bravo! These cars are beyond beautiful.
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post #15 of 93 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 12:59 AM
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Very nice!!!!

well done! beautiful with this light blue!
Where are you from? i live in France near the german border, near Freiburg.
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