Abarth Crate Engine 1050 Info needed - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-23-2008, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Moretti

They sure are....
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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-24-2008, 06:09 PM
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If anyone has a line on a 1050 engine for sale, please send me a PM. An A112 Block plus head would be good. A complete motor as pulled out of an A112 with all the bits attached would be even better. Needing full rebuild is fine too.
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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-25-2008, 05:21 AM
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Are we talking about the same 1050 motor as fitted to the 127?
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-25-2008, 07:55 AM
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I thought the 127 had a 903cc engine. I was told only the later Autobianci Abarth A112 cars came with he 70HP 1050CC engine.
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-25-2008, 12:40 PM
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No, the 127 Sport had the 1050 70Hp engine. I had one in bits, in fact I may still have the head and camshaft. I always understood that the head and cam were Abarth modified but had no idea they were this rare?
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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-25-2008, 12:54 PM
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You are right, I just checked out the 127 Sport online. That is not a model I was familiar with--never saw it in any of the rear engine Fiat or Abarth books.

The engines may not have been that rare, but they haven't been made for so many years, and there were none ever imported by Fiat here to the US.
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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-25-2008, 02:20 PM
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Talking

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Originally Posted by AllthingsZagato View Post
No, the 127 Sport had the 1050 70Hp engine. I had one in bits, in fact I may still have the head and camshaft. I always understood that the head and cam were Abarth modified but had no idea they were this rare?
That's right, the later model Autobianchi A112 Abarth and the 127 Sport share the same motor. The 127 Sport is rarer than the A112, as they were only made for a couple years, but there's probably a good 100,000 motors around. They were all mass-produced, none were individually modified by Abarth at all. They are getting rarer, but are by no means rare at all. Unfortunately, this thread seems to have spiralled out of control! I might list my A112 motor for EUR100,000 based on what I'm reading here!!!
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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-25-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schank View Post
You are right, I just checked out the 127 Sport online. That is not a model I was familiar with--never saw it in any of the rear engine Fiat or Abarth books.

The engines may not have been that rare, but they haven't been made for so many years, and there were none ever imported by Fiat here to the US.
Hello
The 1050 engine was intended for the Fiat 127 (and Autobianchi 112 Abarth) and has an overhead cam and no pushrods.

Perhaps one could add, that Abarth made a small series of Fiat 127 based rally equipped cars for a rally series in France. The model is sometimes referred to ing. Colucci's last work for Abarth. I have one needing restoration.

The overhead cam Fiat 127 1050-engine is not for rear engined cars like 500, 600 or 850 - all having pushrod engines.

It is true that the 903ccm version for the Fiat 850 can be confused with the 903 ccm engine for the Fiat 127. In fact they share quite some parts - but the layout is different. In the rear engine cars the engine is installed longitudinally - but transversely in front engined Fiat 127s and Autobianchi 112s.

I have seen Fiat 850 blocks (903 ccm versions being 5 mm. higher) converted using parts from a Fiat 127, but it is extremely comprehensive. The 850 engine versions turn ccw, so a correct cam is essential - the Fiat 127/Autobianchi cam item can't be used.

The usual solution is to use the internals of an Abarth 58hp engine used in early Autobianchi 112 Abarths (longer stroke for 985 ccm and better torque) - and find a ccw cam (try Berni Motori in Italy for a 850/1000OT cam). Usually an electric fuel pump is needed.

The beautiful finned valve cover from the Autobianchi 112 Abarth has an engine oil lid that - when used in a rear engined car - is not accessible, because installed logitudinally it is on the front end of the engine. It makes it difficult to shift oil.

By the way - Abarth produced more than 50.000 engines for the Autobianchi 112 Abarths. So, there should be quite some parts out there.

So, to put it short - it is quite a task to alter a pushrod engine.

Give me time and I can find you a very comprehensive list (if I can find it) a German gave me years ago.

Best regards - and good luck with it.
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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 05:23 AM
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I think I have lost track now. are we trying to fit the 127 Sport 1050cc motor into a '60's FIAT?
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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 12:56 PM
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1050

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I think I have lost track now. are we trying to fit the 127 Sport 1050cc motor into a '60's FIAT?
Hello again

I would advise against it. The Fiat 600 and 850 (Fiat type 100 and 100G) used pushrod engines with a gearbox bolted on in front of the engine. To use a Fiat 127 1050 engine in an old Fiat. Well, its brave....

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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 02:06 PM
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I think I have lost track now. are we trying to fit the 127 Sport 1050cc motor into a '60's FIAT?
Hehe! Yes, it's got way off track.

(a) Autobianchi A112 Abarth (1976-1986): This engine is a 1050cc derivative of the original pushrod 600 engine, but there aren't any parts in common. However, many parts are interchagable, so it is possible to fit an FWD A112 engine to a RWD 600, or 850 (although it requires more work to reverse engine rotation). However, you can't just bolt it in an walk away. Mass produced model - lots around.

(b) Fiat 127 Sport (mid-1970's): As per above but a bit rarer.

(c) Fiat 127 OHC (late-1970's +): An OHC design, similar capacity (1049cc) but very different to the above (more in common with 128, Ritmo, etc). Not interchangable, so probably as easy as fitting a small block Chev V8 to your 600.

Confusing, ain't it! Of course, the OP may be talking about a totally different motor again!
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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 02:13 PM
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That's right, the later model Autobianchi A112 Abarth and the 127 Sport share the same motor. The 127 Sport is rarer than the A112, as they were only made for a couple years, but there's probably a good 100,000 motors around. They were all mass-produced, none were individually modified by Abarth at all. They are getting rarer, but are by no means rare at all. Unfortunately, this thread seems to have spiralled out of control! I might list my A112 motor for EUR100,000 based on what I'm reading here!!!
Hello
According to the "Abarth buyers guide" by Peter Vack the Autobianchi 112 Abarth were actually modified by Abarth (by then also a part of the Fiat group) and sent to Autobianchi in Monza.

As far as I know the Fiat 127 Sport 70HP has nothing to do with Abarth - but perhaps engines were identical.

Engines produced like that surely haven't the stamps to identify production month etc. as the parts used for early Abarth engines.

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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-28-2008, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Autobianchi 112 Abarth

Ok, I finally have the information on the engine we have. This engine was ordered from Italy around 5 years ago. It was a brand new engine and was run for around 20 minutes on a stand to make sure it was still in good shape. My partner ordered it for the Moretti and I talked him out of trying that. I feel the car is worth more with the original engine. This is a Autobianchi 112 Abarth 1050 and it is, in fact marked Abarth on the cover my partner tells me. It is for sale. First come first served. I am asking $5000.00 for this engine and I will include shipping to anywhere in the Lower 48 states. It can actually ship UPS Feel free to call me at 8032308260 to talk about this engine.

Last edited by gofast; 11-28-2008 at 10:29 PM.
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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 12:42 AM
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[QUOTE=degruch;679739]Goodness! US$3,000!?! I paid US$2,000 a couple years ago for my rebuilder, when the market was at it peak. A friend of mine has been offered no less than 10 short motors for sale recently at less than US$1,000. Given the current economic climate, prices are down down down.


Duane,10 short motors for $1000 ??? Please send a pic !(i just trashed 6 motors and gearboxes that looked the same).Unless you have seen it in the flesh,dont believe it.There was an old wifes tale of the Fiat and clutch guy near Brisbane having the same deal about 12 years ago.In fact he only ever bought 1 motor into Aus and 1 crank and piston set (now in VIC).I know i saw them and spoke to the people face to face.But still i hear about the Aussie 10 Abarth motors (diff to your story).
Did you hear about the 5 Fulvia Zagatos with expired parking in Singapore ? Again i spoke the owner of 1 of the 2 cars.Another ripper.

Grant
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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 11-29-2008, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by gofast View Post
Ok, I finally have the information on the engine we have. This engine was ordered from Italy around 5 years ago. It was a brand new engine and was run for around 20 minutes on a stand to make sure it was still in good shape. My partner ordered it for the Moretti and I talked him out of trying that. I feel the car is worth more with the original engine. This is a Autobianchi 112 Abarth 1050 and it is, in fact marked Abarth on the cover my partner tells me. It is for sale. First come first served. I am asking $5000.00 for this engine and I will include shipping to anywhere in the Lower 48 states. It can actually ship UPS Feel free to call me at 8032308260 to talk about this engine.
It would have to be stripped to have its specs checked (i e std more with no sleeves/std crank without regrind etc etc) and after 20 mins its not really new anymore is it ?My sugestion would be to pitch 'as new' or 'rebuilt'.
As a price guide i sold from USA out of a record monza to Australia a 1050 with a PBS head and butterfly manifold,PBS sump and exhaust etc for $5500 USD.Your motor is standard from a production front wheel drive car.Nor a purpose built Abarth motor despite it having some very nice internals.
It will need many modifications to fit in an Fiat be it a 600 or 850 based car.
If it was a real Abarth motor like a TC or an OT in 'as new' condition it would be a lot more attractive.
Grant Gauld
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