P*sch* stink, Alfa's Rule!

[vintageveloce]

For arguments with those sadly misled P*rch* fans.
Model Price New 0-60 0-100 top speed 1/4 mi Braking Source
P 912 $4700 11.6 34 119 18.1 28 (ft/sec/sec) R&T Feb 1966
P 911 $6500 9.0 23.7 132 16.5 no data R&T Annual 1966
1600 GTV $4200 10.5 35.5 112 17.6 78 (% G) R&T Feb 1967
1600 GTA $5500 8.8 23.9 114 16.7 no data Autocar Apr 1967, except price from R&T
1600 GTA $5500 8.2 no dat 124.8 16.8 no data Sports Car Graphic Dec 1965, exc. price

Or for those obsessed with the previous generation... where the 356 might have still been a reasonably hopped up VW...

Model Price New 0-60 top speed 1/4 mi Source
Giulietta Sprint 1600 GDP $2118 10.5 111.8 17.4 Classic and Sports Car Nov 86
P 356C GDP $2493 13.5 107 18.8 Classic and Sports Car Nov 86
Giulietta Spider 1300 GDP 2248 14.8 103 no data Classic and Sports Car Jun 03
P 356A GDP 2236 14.1 102 no data Classic and Sports Car Jun 03

[smestas]

Ahhhhhh!

You must be refering to one of these 1966 models.

[super-racer]

i want it...that's my next car

[vintageveloce]

Looks like one of those slow overpriced VWs to me. For a grand more than a GTA, it should at least be faster and not slide off the road rear end first!
C
(if you ignore the placement of the engine behind the rear axle, it is kind of attractive, but sadly, the engine remains in a silly place.)

[84_SPIDER]

Just imagine..... you can get dealer support, and even purchase a new 2005 "Overpriced VW" today.... It must be wonderful!
Wish I could do the same with a particular loved, but underappreciated Italian Automobile company..........

[84GTV6]

More bashing of other cars? Jeepers people, be secure with what you have choosen and stop trying to justify your Alfa!!

The rest of the population could care less about those numbers. Porsches are great. I would love to have one. I would trade all my Alfas to smestas for his but I don't think he would go for it!!

Next thing you know people will start to think the Alfa is better than a BMW or start comparing them to Acuras/Lexi/and other brands.......

I love my Alfa for what it is. A blast to drive and own and half the price of a used Ford Escort!!

[BigSwede]

Exactly, I'd love to be able to have a 911 in my garage but for now thats just isn't possible.

Less bashing and more cross-brand discussions please, it improves everything...

[italcarguy]

I love my Porsche...every little bit of it. I have driven Alfa's as daily drivers for the past 7 years and raced them for 5. Alfa's are wonderful cars, I love them to death. I think a complete garage would have an Alfa and a Porsche it in. What I like about the Porsche is that it's a great all around car. It's an exotic sports car that can be driven everyday to and from work, then you can trash on it in the canyons and on the track on the weekends, then drive it back to work on Monday. 911's are also not much to maintain. I looked into parts costs before purchasing mine and mechanical components are about the same price as those for a Milano or 164. My '79 SC is not the fastest off the line but when the road starts to get twisty, I'm checkin' out. Saying a Porsche is a hoped up VW is the same thing as saying Alfa's and Ferrari's are Fiat hot rods. BTW, which 911 did they compare to the GTA? It was probably a 911T which is more comparable to a Giulia Sprint GT Veloce. A 911S is more comprable to a 1600 GTA Stradale.

[BKCowGod]

I also find it rather ironic that we as Alfisti knock the reliability of other brands. An example - I love Hyundai Tiburons, but whenever I mention getting one everybody chimes in with "oh, my brother had one of those and they're sooo unreliable."

Gee... Where have I heard that before?

Thank you Simon for sharing that beautiful vehicle with us. My dad had one back in '66 and I have heard the story of my mom dropping the engine on his foot at least a dozen times.

Horray for interesting cars the world over!

[italcarguy]

That car at the top is not Simon's. It belongs to someone on the Porsche board. I think he was using it as an example. Here are Simon's and my Porsche. Both are 911 SC's, his has updated body. He's got the black one and mine's white.

[NikosF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by italcarguy What I like about the Porsche is that it's a great all around car. It's an exotic sports car that can be driven everyday to and from work, then you can trash on it in the canyons and on the track on the weekends, then drive it back to work on Monday. 911's are also not much to maintain. I looked into parts costs before purchasing mine and mechanical components are about the same price as those for a Milano or 164.

30 plus years ago you could get a bumper sticker that read "speed kills, drive a porsche a live forever" that was 30 years ago and does not apply at all to the newer cars, even the trailing throttle oversteer has been addressed and the cars are a blast to drive, the only thing I can't understand about Porsche in the last 1/4 century is that the 928 didn't find a wider market, the S4 is a great car and if you lack respect for the make, drive one

[italcarguy]

'78-'83 911 SC's are the way to go. They are incredible cars.

[vintageveloce]

Well, clearly my attempt at some P*rsch* bashing humor has failed. Sigh! Really I meant no offense. I had been having a discussion with a friend about the price performance of GTVs and 911 and looked up the data. And after I sent it to him, I thought why start a thread... ;-)
And I must admit the cars pictured above are rather pretty!
I've always disliked German cars. Frighteningly, I own one, because I like it's retractable hard top. But I dislike the attitude and price/performance ratio. It was something I picked up in college when I met a bunch of what I would call 'german car snobs' and I found conversations among car guys became much more spirited and interesting if I announced my opinions.
Secretly, I find the early 911/912 and 356 designs to be very pretty. And I understand how they came into being. But as the 911 progressed, I think the price way exceeded the 'value and performance' of the car. It became more of an 'image' car. You can even see in the numbers above how the 356 and Giulietta were relatively close in price/performance, but then the 911 started to go up.
In my opinion, the boxter is a much better design, but Porsche holds it back because they cannot let it cut into the sales and margins of the 911. I saw a magazine test a couple years back where they put a 911 engine in a new boxter, and then remarked how much better a car the Boxter was! The 944 also seemed to be a very solid design.
But while the 911 looks great, I just cannot understand having the engine begind the axle other than 'history'.
All this meant in good humor. I would have thought the heading of the thread would have detered those not interested in this topic from entering. ;-)

I think one could argue that Alfa is in part responsible for where Porsche is now,and their constant devolpment work, untill Porsche went above 2.5 liters it was Alfa and Porsche, back and forth in most racing classes, to bad Alfa didn't bring the Montreal over, IMSA would not have been a Porsche runaway