09-28-2011, 12:05 AM
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Alfa Romeo 4c Worshiper!
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by 1,6 HF
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Again, go here: File:UsNaturalGasProductionAndPrices.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That tells the real story. Real prices for gas have steadily increased. They will continue to do so. We need to replace fossil fuels with energy technology that does not rely on an ever diminishing resource as its raw material, especially as we have already extracted a substantial percentage of the total. What percentage, nobody knows for sure, but what is sure is that the easiest (read "cheapest") stuff to extract has been gotten already. What's left, while very considerable, is going to get more and more expensive as it gets more and more costly to extract, because it is more and more difficult to do.
Technology and the marketplace will solve this problem, but I would prefer to avoid the mass bloodshed that will accompany that solution.
__________________
Randy Lee
"HAVE another cookie!!" - Don Corrado Prizzi
Randy's Italian Lot:
1978 Sport Sedan - "Cecilia", a rustfree Alfetta
1990 Mondial T Cabrio - Engine major service, climate control overhaul, and interior tune up still to go - Short is on it!!
1958 Giullietta Sprint. "G.Sprint" No holds barred. 3.0 Liter 12 Valve V6 and Verde transaxle just to get warmed up!
1976 Alfetta GT. Twin 45 Dellortos. Alfetta maintainence drug while Cecilla gets restored.
1978 Alfetta GT. Ex Keith Martin, and getting a nice set of Euro Bumpers along with the rest of the good parts off the '76.
ON HOLD 196x Lancia Flaminia Sedan - name and the rest TBD.
Ex:
79 Spt Sdn. "Griswold" and never-driven '74 Spider sold to Harry Riley
74 Spider "Isabel" traded for "Cecilia" Thanks Ric!
(Look at Isabel now: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/spid...tml#post565887 !!)
1979 Sport Sedan Alfamatic. Traded to Wilbur for a very sweet bicycle - thanks!
All the parts cars chopped up or sent to Larry...
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09-28-2011, 06:39 AM
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Director BC Chapter SNO
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Randy
The Wiki chart is from 1930 to 2005--posted annually and it does not note how the price is "Adjusted".
Please see The Chart Store is home to over 5,000 Historical Charts and the Weekly Chart Blog
1922 to date and posted monthly. You can get it deflated by the CPI, or PPI, or not deflated.
As I posted a few days ago the price high was $23 in 1997 and the next high at $13 in 2008. Deflated by the CPI.
Any number of commodity services provide current quotes (in 2011 dollars) and at the moment it is $3.79 down three cents from the close.
The Chart Store data are correct and kept current.
The service is used by investors, traders and financial publications--around the world.
Ooops : 3.78 now.
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Bob
1962 Giulietta Spider: Grafite Grigio/Red Interior, "Tuned" 2L.
1963 101.12 Giulia Sprint: Dark Blue ,"Tuned" 2 L. Restoration soon to be completed.
1967 Giulia Super: Red/Black Interior,"Tuned" 1750. Added in May 2013.
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09-28-2011, 08:10 AM
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Director BC Chapter SNO
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, B C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Braden
AFAIK, it has always been more expensive to obtain oil from shale than by drilling. The reason many oil companies find it less expensive in the long run to fight states over off-shore drilling bans.
Here's the link to an article about getting oil from shale or the "why it hasn't happened," including the last attempt by Unocal who abandoned their facility and what they had invested in it.
Link: http://hubbert.mines.edu/news/Youngquist_98-4.pdf |
Cheryl
Tried to PM you, but your mail is full.
King Hubbert was a proponent of the "Peak Oil" story. It is now dead and your reference was dated 1998.
__________________
Bob
1962 Giulietta Spider: Grafite Grigio/Red Interior, "Tuned" 2L.
1963 101.12 Giulia Sprint: Dark Blue ,"Tuned" 2 L. Restoration soon to be completed.
1967 Giulia Super: Red/Black Interior,"Tuned" 1750. Added in May 2013.
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09-28-2011, 08:35 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Haddam CT USA
Posts: 581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1,6 HF
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This is really sad. While I can understand the reasoning for such waste on a local scale, I know that in other parts of the country, folks are signing contracts with companies to extract natural gas from their land. Many of these folks are land-rich but otherwise very poor, so there is a huge incentive for signing contracts. The place where I know this is happening on a large scale is northern Michigan, where there are vast underground supplies of natural gas. Some of the most beautiful country in the USA will be raped in the near future I fear.
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09-28-2011, 09:10 AM
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Director BC Chapter SNO
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, B C
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The article mentioned "permitting".
Although there are gas and oil pipelines most everywhere in North America, there is a well-funded and powerful political movement against pipelines.
But, while flaring excess gas is a loss, it probably contributes very little to global warming.
Just think how much flaring there would be if the "movement" was as powerful 30 years ago.
__________________
Bob
1962 Giulietta Spider: Grafite Grigio/Red Interior, "Tuned" 2L.
1963 101.12 Giulia Sprint: Dark Blue ,"Tuned" 2 L. Restoration soon to be completed.
1967 Giulia Super: Red/Black Interior,"Tuned" 1750. Added in May 2013.
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09-28-2011, 09:22 AM
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Registered User
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Location: West Hollywood, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtle
The article mentioned "permitting".
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Not in the context you imply, Bob. The article makes it clear that flaring is environmentally less destructive than simply venting gas into the atmosphere, it wasn't the article's author. But it was one of the gas field operators who said “Pipelines are expensive: You have to maintain them. You need permits to build them. They are a pain.” It's exactly the short-sighted, self-serving claim you'd expect from a mid-level industry player.
__________________
Ed
1970 Lancia Fulvia 1,6 HF
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09-28-2011, 11:34 AM
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Alfa Romeo 4c Worshiper!
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtle
Cheryl
Tried to PM you, but your mail is full.
King Hubbert was a proponent of the "Peak Oil" story. It is now dead and your reference was dated 1998.
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Bob, all I am asking you to consider acknowledging is that humans will harvest the low hanging fruit first. Is that really so impossible to conceive as possibly being true???
In other words the "Peak Oil" story is vastly over-simplified. So if one considers the over-simplified version, of course it's false. But that does not mean that my point of view is false. In fact, I don't understand how you can possibly deny my point: The easy oil gets taken first - as time goes on the rest will be taken, but it will get more and more costly to do so. That is so pig obvious!!
__________________
Randy Lee
"HAVE another cookie!!" - Don Corrado Prizzi
Randy's Italian Lot:
1978 Sport Sedan - "Cecilia", a rustfree Alfetta
1990 Mondial T Cabrio - Engine major service, climate control overhaul, and interior tune up still to go - Short is on it!!
1958 Giullietta Sprint. "G.Sprint" No holds barred. 3.0 Liter 12 Valve V6 and Verde transaxle just to get warmed up!
1976 Alfetta GT. Twin 45 Dellortos. Alfetta maintainence drug while Cecilla gets restored.
1978 Alfetta GT. Ex Keith Martin, and getting a nice set of Euro Bumpers along with the rest of the good parts off the '76.
ON HOLD 196x Lancia Flaminia Sedan - name and the rest TBD.
Ex:
79 Spt Sdn. "Griswold" and never-driven '74 Spider sold to Harry Riley
74 Spider "Isabel" traded for "Cecilia" Thanks Ric!
(Look at Isabel now: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/spid...tml#post565887 !!)
1979 Sport Sedan Alfamatic. Traded to Wilbur for a very sweet bicycle - thanks!
All the parts cars chopped up or sent to Larry...
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09-28-2011, 12:48 PM
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Junior Senior
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 944
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It's the thermometer, Stupid
Posted without comment other than to say I'll be very interested to see what man-caused global warming advocates have to say in response to this article.
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71 Spider
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09-28-2011, 01:23 PM
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Alfa Romeo 4c Worshiper!
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alfa World, USA
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My position that we must, as soon as possible, replace fossil fuel based energy production infrastructure has nothing to do with the climate. Does anyone else here feel the same way?
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09-28-2011, 01:50 PM
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Director BC Chapter SNO
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, B C
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Hmmmm...No!
__________________
Bob
1962 Giulietta Spider: Grafite Grigio/Red Interior, "Tuned" 2L.
1963 101.12 Giulia Sprint: Dark Blue ,"Tuned" 2 L. Restoration soon to be completed.
1967 Giulia Super: Red/Black Interior,"Tuned" 1750. Added in May 2013.
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09-28-2011, 01:52 PM
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Alfa Romeo 4c Worshiper!
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alfa World, USA
Posts: 3,151
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Bob, all I am asking you to consider acknowledging is that humans will harvest the low hanging fruit first. Is that really so impossible to conceive as possibly being true???
In other words the "Peak Oil" story is vastly over-simplified. So if one considers the over-simplified version, of course it's false. But that does not mean that my point of view is false. In fact, I don't understand how you can possibly deny this: The easy oil gets taken first - as time goes on the rest will be taken, but it will get more and more costly to do so. That is so pig obvious, but please, if you disagree, provide some reasoning as to why not.
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09-28-2011, 05:26 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Haddam CT USA
Posts: 581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokki
It's the thermometer, Stupid
Posted without comment other than to say I'll be very interested to see what man-caused global warming advocates have to say in response to this article.
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I think it is well summed up by some of the responses to the article at the site.
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09-28-2011, 06:04 PM
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Junior Senior
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 944
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"Cost experts have agreed that horizontal wells have become a preferred method of recovering oil and gas from reservoirs in which these fluids occupy strata that are horizontal, or nearly so, because they offer greater contact area with the productive layer than vertical wells. While the cost factor for a horizontal well may be as much as two or three times that of a vertical well, the production factor can be enhanced as much as 15 or 20 times, making it very attractive."
Horizontal Drilling - Directional Oil - Gas Well - Drilling Engineering Tools
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71 Spider
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09-29-2011, 05:56 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyleepublic
The easy oil gets taken first - as time goes on the rest will be taken, but it will get more and more costly to do so. That is so pig obvious, but please, if you disagree, provide some reasoning as to why not.
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Nobody will disagree that the easy oil is taken first. However as technology marches on oil that was previously unreachable becomes the "low hanging fruit".
I have never heard the term "pig obvious" before.
Greg
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09-29-2011, 07:39 AM
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Director BC Chapter SNO
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, B C
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Some on this forum doubted the accuracy of my series of high and low deflated prices for natural gas. Maybe it was uncertainty over the "deflated" part.
Anyone might be able to get into StockCharts:
Or
http://stockcharts/h-sc/ui
Otherwise, just google stockcharts.com
Symbol is: $natgas---freebie quote is delayed by 15 minutes.
Available from 1990 to date. High was over $15 at the end of 2005 and current is 3.71, down 9 cents on the day. 
__________________
Bob
1962 Giulietta Spider: Grafite Grigio/Red Interior, "Tuned" 2L.
1963 101.12 Giulia Sprint: Dark Blue ,"Tuned" 2 L. Restoration soon to be completed.
1967 Giulia Super: Red/Black Interior,"Tuned" 1750. Added in May 2013.
Last edited by Subtle; 09-29-2011 at 08:05 AM.
Reason: Typpo
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