|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|08-19-2015 04:09 AM|
|2000 touring sp||
Thanks for you replay.
John. The identity of the Edgar Berney car , is in my opinion fully clear. After the talk Tim Buttkus had with Theo Geither. Who ran the 04348 SVZ. He brought it on 15 June 1960. In this talk Theo Geither confirms that he brought the 04348 from Edgar Berney. So unless Edgar Berney run 2 SVZ at the same time . The question on chassis number is fully answered..
For me is the interest what happen before Edgar Berney acquired the SVZ 04348. We know that it went to CH as a standard SV. It was returned to Milan Zagato to have a new body, and there after returned to ZH . Where Berney acquired it. We dont know the dates when Berney Acquered it. He ran the car in the coppa intereuropa 1958, according Anselmi. with sttart number 45.
He i registrated for the folowing results on racingsportscars.com with Alfa Romeo
7.4.1958 3 h Pau [GT2.0] Alfa Romeo Berney ?th
21.9.1958 Avus [GT1.6] 78 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Zagato Edgar Berney Edgar Berney DNA
21.9.1958 Tour de France 137 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Veloce Zagato Berney / Gretener raced
5.10.1958 Coupes du Salon Alfa Romeo Giulietta Sprint Veloce Zagato Edgar Berney 6th
Date Race No. Car Drivers Entrant Result
3.5.1959 GP Spa [GT] 12 Alfa Romeo Berney DNS
7.6.1959 1000 km Nürburgring 83 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Veloce Berney / Foitek Edgar Berney DNF
This is where i am. And this is the reason .That the information og Gorza and the Reims car interest me.
So in general i fully agree with what you have stated, Martin.
|08-18-2015 12:31 PM|
Nothing truly new here, but to confirm the observations of "martinue":
There is no reason to believe that 01613 was bodied by Zagato. Certainly not for Gorza.
Gorza almost certainly raced 04069 on a temporary plate on the Giro di Sicilia as the Forli plate (mentioned by "martinue") was not issued until shortly after that event.
I've not yet attempted to confirm with certainty that Berney's car was 02348. Nor have I accidently come across information to confirm this. Although the connection seems quite likely, I cannot characterize it as proven.
|08-17-2015 02:00 PM|
There is no confirmation that Gorza's earlier SVA *01613* was rebodied by Zagato.
Some short conversion times of various SVZ:
*01944* between '560429 and '560902
*02488* between '570623 and '570720 (?)
*01849* between '580228 and '580504
*04657* between '580601 and '580803
According to an earlier post of John de Boer *01613* was reregistered in April '57 at Bologna, just when he purchased *04069*.
The registration of *04069* could read FO 39731 as I meant to see on a better quality photo of the '57 Coppa Intereuropa at Monza. This might be true, because this number was issued in May '57 shortly after the Giro di Sicilia. April the 14th 1957 was the Giro di Sicilia, not the Targa Florio.
So no entry Gorza did since then in '57 was done with *01613*. Racingsportscars.com is simply wrong. *04069* was a DNF with distribtor failure in the '57 Mille Miglia. It only had got a stripe more between April and September '57, no different paint.
It is a completely different car from Edgar Berney's SVZ. I have edited the photo in post #27 of the Berney car (*02348*?), it was taken '59 at Francorchamps, and not '58 at Reims as had been written in some books.
|08-16-2015 06:47 AM|
|2000 touring sp||
hello all, ant thanks for this lovely tread, especially to Martin.
My concern is that we are mixing picture of Gorza in " #01613 and #04069 and the Rheims Car #02348.
I can simply not find head or too concerning Egidio Gorza. Simply confused.
And I hope that I am explaining in a way that every one is able to understand what I mean.
I was looking for information on the Rheims car. It was in post 27.But I started from the rear.That gives a opportune to get some new knowledge. As iicar Johns info in post 342.
Post 342 "Egidio Gorza owned the SVA *01613 from new in 1956.
Egidio Gorza purchased the SVA AR1493E*04069 in March of 1957 and it was almost certainly bodied very quickly, probably just in time for the Targa Florio "
Post No. 12 is said to be photographed at Rheims in 1958. That was all I found of comments on this car. Excuse if I have overlooked some.
Martin states in his revision in connection with the Giugno book:
Short updated history:
"#SVA/SVZ *01613/04069*: just like in his Giulietta-Targa book, Giugno states *01613* for the Egidio Gorza SVZ; 1956/1957 with Gorza (note: Giugno states there was no reg number on the car, but he had listed "FO 31763" for the 1957 Giro di Sicilia entry in his earlier Targa book); 1958-1960 with Mario Bongiasca; 1962 Herbert Wrobel had SVZ *04069*"
#Re Egidio It shuld be stated that he had 2 SV.
But did he have 2 SVZ double bubble , that question is still open, as far as my knowledge. Re Johns comment We know that Gorza double Bubble car #01613, ran the Taga Florio 14 April 1957.
But would it be possible to build an new car in Max one and a halves month???? From the 1 of Marts, if that was the buying month, till the start of Taga Florio 14 of April
In the book Veloce by Hughes and Da Prato there is a picture of the Rheims car. With the text "12 hours of Rheims , July of 1957:1300 GT class -winning SVZ of Gorza /Morolli."
on the web site racing sports cars is the following results for SVZ #01613 given
Chassis 01613 - Complete Archive - Racing Sports Cars
Egidio Gorza -Minaudo made a 10 place in the Giro di Sicillia 14 of April 1957 start number 157
Egidio Gorza had a DNF in Mille Miglia 12 of Maj 1957 startnumber 106
Egidio Gorza - Olinto Morolli had a 9 place in general in Reims 14 of July 1957 startnummer 12
Egidio Gorza enterd a SVZ Double Bubble in Coppa Intereuropa på Monza 1957 different painting than the Giro di Sicilla car
We know it was a double bubble car that Gorza was entering in Giro de Sicillia, from pictures.
I haven't been able to find pictures of the car in MM.. The reason for the DNF, was that a accident. So he had to rebuild the car, before Rheims. As the Rheims car does look different to the pictures Giro di Sicillia car.
In the Giuliettaletta Giulietta Golden Jubilee 1954-2004 Issue 82: Adrian Smits wrote regarding #02348.
"According to Baljan it transpired during the restoration that the car had the bodywork adapted to accommodate a racing type big bore fuel filler on the RH-side. There exists a picture (see Hughes/da Prato "Giulietta da Corsa" p.36) of a light coloured 3rd type SVZ at the 12 Hours of Reims race in July 1957 with such a fuel filler. (Author's note: this date must most probably be 1958 or 1959 as in July 1957 no 3rd definitive type SVZ existed at that time!). It was driven at that time by Gorza/Morolli and it won the 1300 GT class. It is not known who owned this car at the time. Neither can it be confirmed that the Rheims picture depicts No.02348. Gorza himself owned a 2nd type double bubble SVZ No.04069."??????
In Het Klaverblaadje nr 68 forth quarter 1994. He raises the question. Did Gorza have 3 SVZ at e cert en time
Did Gorza really have 2 or more SVZ. We know that he had more than one Sprint Veloce
Whey did Gorza change the paintings on the Giro di Sicilla befor start in MM 1957 ?????
Did Gorza own the Rheims Car????
Was there other connections with the #02348 other that the filler cab that Bart Baljon noticed, and the Rheims car that Gorza drove during the race.
Was it the car Edgar Barney brought???
|07-21-2015 03:54 AM|
Originally Posted by Ti Sup View Post
|07-20-2015 02:14 PM|
Picture of SVZ 08780 In France early '70ies
|06-29-2015 04:14 AM|
|divotandtralee||This car is owned by Richard a fellow from Colorado brought over from auction in Belgium years ago...it was fresh out of restoration ..like Wed...there should be plenty of info forthcoming in publications, i am sure|
|06-29-2015 01:35 AM|
|2000 touring sp||
Hello to you all.
These 2 pictures was posted in the 1900-2000 forum.
Does anybody know the win( chassis) number
|06-10-2015 11:08 AM|
M. Solignac send me pictures of his ex-SVZ 09403 when he bought the car early eighties.
He told me that after a little restoration, the car was for sale (see advert in previous thread) and goes to Switzerland.
I had contact with the next owner in Switzerland ; M xxx.
In resume, he told me this :
"I bought a svz from M. Solignac ; the car had papers with VIN 09403 but that was not the correct VIN stamped on the car.
To go through customs, I covered with tin the VIN and I re-stamped the VIN 09403. I send the car to carrozzeria Galbiati in Milano for a total rebuild of the body. The car was repainted in red with black interior.
Because family troubles, I'm going during one year in Africa and unfortunately, when back home, my ex-wife had bought all my cars and the svz too. More later, I heard that my svz goes to Sweden "
Oh !!! Oh !!! In previous threads, I read that a SVZ with VIN 02028 was in Sweden (Tore Stenberg) during this era, then in Netherland (Rinus Belt) and was for sale by VSOC (Alex Von Mozer).
Alex Von Mozer explain that under the VIN 02028, he discovered the VIN 06936.
Thus, my opinion is that the ex-Solignac car is really 06936.
I have contact with the owner before M. Solignac (in Toulouse, France) and maybe I shall give soon more informations on this car
|04-16-2015 03:08 AM|
Found this slide yesterday in Essen, I think it is Armand Schafer at the 1963 Tour de France, Scuderia Filipinetti enteredAttachment 770129 SZ.
|03-12-2015 01:41 PM|
|2000 touring sp||
Thanks a lot to you both.
Really a great help THANKS
|03-12-2015 01:12 PM|
no. 8 is Ubezzi in the '580518 GP de Spa at Francorchamps, he had *01944* repainted red before
nos. 83 & 78 is Rey with *02158*. he had the after José Rosinski, who himself bought it from Abate and had it rebodied
no. 36 in the background is *03907* of “Ivanhoe” Avorio/Giorgio Scarlatti in the '600508 Targa Florio. Ada Pace raced an Osca in this event
|03-12-2015 10:33 AM|
MI 304696 was the car from Leto Di Priolo, not Zagato's
One of the brothers drove together with Ubezzi in the '58 Rallye des Routes du Nord.
After this rallye I don't have a Di Priolo in this car.
Only Ubezzi, with different co-drivers but still with the same license plate up until the Colli Torinesi hillclimb (Sassi-Superga) end of august.
On the picture you can see part of the car at the 19580705 Reims 12H.
|03-12-2015 09:47 AM|
|2000 touring sp||
hello to you all.
I have a couple of pictures that puzzle me for some time.
Hope someone is able to help to identify.
The first is from the book of Hughes and witting The racing Giuliettas
There is this picture , witch should be of Abates car.
But it has registration MI 304696. Where does this registration belongs????
Abates car had TO 209716, that number followed the car after Jose Rosinski brought the car, and rebuilt it with new SVZ body.
Second Picture Rey Guilhardin started with this during the Tour de Corsa 21-22 Nov. 1959.
Did Rey by the car *02158 for the 1959 season .Picture from the net
Third picture from Giuliettaletta
SVZ with registration TO 209715. Picture should be from Liege-Rome-Liege 1960
Fifth picture is Ada Pace and Ivanhoe. What car is this.?? I have filed is as Ada Paces car, and didn't give any notice of the registration.
Hope for some assistance
|02-16-2015 08:58 PM|
|martinue||19620909 Großer Bergpreis von Österreich, Gaisberg-Rennen, Salzburg (A), n. 136 SVZ *04069* (M-ST 172) Herbert Wrobel, München (D), Herbert Wrobel; 8cl (GT1.15/GT1.3)|
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