Cam variator needs replacing, couple of questions?

[rickp101]

I have just taken my 3 year and 2 month old (yep just out of warranty ) 147 into my local dealer because the air bag warning light was on.

That wasn't too pricey, just a wiring problem but they have also told me that I need new front brake pads, a new handbrake cable and the cam variator replacing.

The pads and handbrake cable is fair enough but I am not sure about the cam variator. As they quoted me £540 I rang a private Alfa specialist garage in Leeds who are going to look at it and if it needs doing will do it for £365 + vat which is a bit better.

Basically before I fork out all this cash is there any way I can tell myself if it actually needs doing. Both garages have mentioned that it is a big job as you have to remove this and that (I'm no car mechanic!) but basically they just said that it is making a noise and that is how they can tell it needs replacing.

Can I check this noise for myself? What am I listening for and when? The 2nd garage said the engine needed to be cold for them to tell how long it makes a noise for.

Also assuming it does need replacing does this price seem fair for the work involved? Is there a cheaper option, bearing in mind I know nothing about engines so would only consider doing it myself if it really is a simple job that I couldn't mess up.

If there is anyone out there who knows about these sort of things I would be very grateful for your help.

Thanks,

Richard

[Hoygaard]

It all depends on how worn it is. If it's just starting to play up, the noise is only there from cold. It should make a diesel like noise, (for those technically minded; it sounds like all the tappets went to kingdom come).

If the noise persist more than 10 seconds, and you want to make sure it's the variator, rev the engine slowly. The noise will then disappear just above 1800-2000 rpms.

if it's really shot, the noise will be there all the time, and performance will be slightly degraded.

There's no harm done, running the car with a shot variator. If the timing belt is up for a replacement in a year, I'd wait an have the whole thing carried out at the same time. If your doing the belts, taking out the camshaft and replacing the variator is only a 30 minutes jobbie.

As for the prices; I think the Dealer (stealer) is a bit on the expensive side. The specialist have got it just about right, assuming he's changing the belts and pulleys as well.

I have said it before, you might want to check out these two webpages, as they're European, and this forum is American oriented. As much as we love the yanks they have no clue about the newest range of Alfa's as Fiat pulled out of North America in the early 90's. Check out ; Alfa 147 page and Alfaowner.com

Cheers
-- Hoygaard

[rickp101]

Thanks for that mate, I will have a listen when I start it up.

[mopar]

The variator is a wellknown problem on the twinspark 16v engines, and it is a quite costly repair.
I spoke with my alfa mechanic the other week however and they have started using Bilstein engine flush http://www.engineflush.com/pages/engine.html
with good results, what they do is that they hook the machine up to your engine and flush it clean with a cleaning fluid, it takes like 15-20 min, and then of course they fill it up with new oil and filter and so far it has worked really good on those diesel sounding variators.
So check if there might be anyone in your area that have this sort of equipment, and you could save alot of cash.

/mopar

[rickp101]

Thanks, I will look into that.

[enormous sage]

An oil change can do wonders for the noise.
Be aware that they do last a long time, even when they're noisy, and as stated you can still run the engine with a noisy variator.

If you go to a "specialist" make sure they replace ALL the necessary pulleys, tensioners and belts (i.e. do the balance belt at the same time)

The price quoted by the specialist sounds a bit low to me - I bought all the parts required to service my Spider, and it cost more than that!
This must just be for the Variator itself - get the belts done at the same time.

Of course if it is for a full service, I'll be going there next time!

[genie]

I've just got my nearly four year old 147 back from an expensive 36,000 mile service and MOT where I had to have quite a lot of suspension parts replaced. At the same time they recomended that I have the cam variator replaced. Due to not having stacks of spare cash knocking around I haven't had it done yet.

I am considering doing the work myself as I am reasonably experienced and have two very experienced friends, one of whom has worked on Alfa engines before. The garage also said that the auxiliary belt and tensioner were showing signs of wear and should be replaced as soon as possible. I am well aware that this going has the potential to damage the cam belt...not good as am sure we all know. So I figure that if replacing the auxiliary belt and tensioner then might as well go for the whole lot and replace the variator as well, it is knocking a little when starting but doesn't sound too bad.

Just wondering if anyone has or knows where I could source some information on doing this specific to the 1600 TS engine. I have an understanding of what needs doing, just wondered if anyone further info. or even a parts list to avoid me trawling through a database!

One other thing, having not had my Alfa for long and this being the first service I have put it through I was just wondering what an average hourly labour rate was in the UK. Just want to make sure I haven't been ripped off!

Thanks in advance for any help.

[mike3]

Hello,

I hope you'll be able to help??

Had my cam belt go on my Alfa 147 lusso about 6 months ago, just within warranty.

Now the cam variator is making a noise and I wondered if these two were linked i.e. should the dealer have replaced the variator at the same time as the cam belt?

thanks...

[Hoygaard]

The two are not linked. Or, in order to cover my back, it's not common practice to replace the variator because of a snapped belt. However: Since they were practically rebuilding the engine and allready had it apart, I think they ought to have offered you the option to pay for a new variator yourself. With the camshaft out anyway, it's a 5 minute job to replace the variator. Those £50 would have been well spent.

/* Hoygaard

[mike3]

Cool, thanks for the detail.

Great to get some advice from somewhere other than the dealer. They have said it needs be done in the next couple of months and will cost about £555... gonna make my wallet very unhappy.

[rickp101]

Just to say, as original poster, that I haven't actually got round to doing anything about my variator and (touch wood) other than the diesel sounding engine for about 3 seconds on startup I haven't had any problems.

It was serviced (36,000) in January by an Alfa specialist (not the dealer that suggested I give them £500+ to fix it) and they didn't mention it.

I will probably just wait until its 48,000 mile service and as I have heard the cam belt needs replacing then get them to do it at the same time.

Is this safe? To be honest after posting this last year I haven't thought about it much, now this post has been resurrected I am paranoid that my engine is going to fail soon now !!

[mike3]

I wouldn't be too paranoid.

Not that I am in any way an expert, but everything I've managed to read has pointed to it not being critical to change if the sound only lasts a few seconds on start up.

The Chap at the Alpha dealer also said that it would only degrade performance by a small margin and was something I could do at a later stage.

I've just had my 48,000 mile service now and will see how the sound gets to decide whether I get it done before the 60,000 mark or before.

Does it cause complete engine failure?

[genie]

Well if it's any conselation, since posting in Septermber last year I've been running with mine still gone due to more pressing needs for funds. Mine hasn't got any worse, it still only rattles for about 2 seconds after first starting up.

Need a cam belt change at next service so will replace it then as it's not that much more of a job if your changing the cam belt apparently.

[pepperorsalt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike3 Hello, I hope you'll be able to help?? Had my cam belt go on my Alfa 147 lusso about 6 months ago, just within warranty. Now the cam variator is making a noise and I wondered if these two were linked i.e. should the dealer have replaced the variator at the same time as the cam belt? thanks...

[clwyd]

If anybody is interested here is a link of how to change the belts and the variator --- very usefull

http://home.hccnet.nl/jaap.bouma/PhaseVariator.htm

My 147 is going in to a specialist in Wrexham, North wales, this friday 9th june for a belt and variator changr £400 all in.