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What will Alfa have to charge?

4K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  Alex Csank 
#1 ·
The 156GTA is about $40,000 in England and the 147GTA is about $34,000. At these kinds of prices, can Alfas sell when they arrive here?

The 156 has only 10 more horsepower than a Nissan Altima, and the Altima, fully loaded, is $10,000-$12,000 less money. Yes, a Nissan is NOT an Alfa, but is the Alfa really worth that much more?

The 147GTA will have to compete with a number of similar cars which are a LOT cheaper too...
 
#2 · (Edited)
I believe that whoever can afford a Alfa will get one. Eventhough powerwise the Alfa will have 10hp less than the Nissan Altima, NOBODY can touch the Alfa in handling abilitys. So basically it is breakin down like this, pay less money for a 10hp more Japanese car (that is ok in handling) or pay 10 grand more for one of the best handling street cars around and that has ONLY 10hp less. It really is the consumers choice.
 
#3 ·
I'm not sure...

In today's word, $1000-$3000 probibly won't make a difference, but I think $10,000-#$12,000 will.

By the time Alfa comes back, there will also be a number of competitors at a similar or less expensive price, like the quatro version of the VW Golf, with 260 horsepower, and the Subaru WRXE with about 260 horsepower.

The Mitusbishi Evo (quatro) is already here, with 271 horsepower..

and all of these have a better reputation for reliability than Alfa...not to say Alfa won't sell some cars, but there best year ever was about 8500 units, and they think they can sell 50,000!
 
#5 ·
If the Lexus IS 300 is selling for $30K. I would think Alfa would have to sell the 156 for about the same price. Certainly not more than a $5K premium over the IS 300.

I think the 156 vs the IS 300 is a reasonable comparison that the average (non-alfista) car buyer would look at.

Any other thoughts?

Garrett
 
#6 ·
The new Maxima

is also a vehicle that the 156 could be compared to, although the Maxima is a bit larger in physical size....The Maxima does, however, have 265 horsepower...and it is about $34,000 fully loaded.

I think the 156 GTA will need to be around $28,000-$30,000 to sell well here, although I'm sure that some will pay $40,000 if that is what it costs...
 
#7 ·
Re: I'm not sure...

dretceterini said:
In today's word, $1000-$3000 probibly won't make a difference, but I think $10,000-#$12,000 will.

By the time Alfa comes back, there will also be a number of competitors at a similar or less expensive price, like the quatro version of the VW Golf, with 260 horsepower, and the Subaru WRXE with about 260 horsepower.

The Mitusbishi Evo (quatro) is already here, with 271 horsepower..

and all of these have a better reputation for reliability than Alfa...not to say Alfa won't sell some cars, but there best year ever was about 8500 units, and they think they can sell 50,000!
I am actually waiting for delivery of my 147 GTA. I paid the equivalent of 34k USD for it. There were a lot of other cars I could have bought, like the VW Golf R32, Audi A3 3,2l , the Nissan 350-Z, Mazda RX-8 or Impreza STI.
To me, even though those other cars are all very desirable, they are not a real competition for the Alfa, because they are too different...the only exception being the Golf R32, which lost to the Alfa because of its lack of sexiness and the engine note wasn't the same either. All of the other cars answer different questions...

For the price of the Alfa, there is a lot of cars which I could have bought with a lot more options, maybe more room, better reliability etc etc, but the bottom line is, they are not what I want...

I don't know if you guys get a brand called Hyundai over there, but here you can buy the XG-35, it's a fully loaded executive car, looks okay, is stuffed with gadgets, has a nice 6 cylinder engine....they cost approx 20k USD LESS than a similarly specced BMW 330

But the question is: Would you buy one? Thought not:D ;)
 
#8 · (Edited)
Manu...since I work for Hyundai...

The XG 350 is about $27,000-$28,000 on the window, less a $2,500 factory rebate (discount). Pretty much everything is standard on the car. The motor is a 3.5 liter, 190 horsepower V-6, with a 5 speed automatic. Stick shift is NOT available.

The Sonata (basically, a Korean Toyota Camary) is about $7,000 less than the XG, with all available options including leather seats and a sunroof.

Both of these cars are several thousand less that the competitors prices for similar cars with the same amount of options.

Even though I work for Hyundai, of course I rather have an Alfa...BUT...

a 156 2 liter with leather and other options is about $22,000. The 2 liter, Hyundai Elantra GT with the same options is only about $15,000. I don't know that the Alfa is 25% better...and I can personally buy the Elantra GT for around $12,000...a 40%+ savings over the Alfa...

Again, I rather have the Alfa...but not for 40% more money....
 
#9 ·
I would still get the $22K Alfa. No way I'm getting a Hyundai. They can throw in a 5.0 V8 for free. I'd still get the Alfa. The thing with most Hyundai cars is that they are very ugly. I'm sure they are good cars, but still, ugly stuff.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Re: I guess ugly...

dretceterini said:
is in the eye of the beholder. I don't think Hyundai's are beautiful by any streach of the imagination, but not any more ugly than any other Asian car.
Alright, I'm jumping in right here because a chord was struck with me. While you are entitled to your opinion, I take exception.

Granted today's Hyundai's look much better than previous models. My '02 Accord Special Edition is much more appealing than any vehicle in the Hyundai line up. In addition, my Honda has proven reliability, excellent ergonomics and exceptional resale value. While I am on my fourth Alfa, I am also on my seventh Honda. I should get the cross and serpent tatoo'd on my left shoulder and a Honda "H" on my right.
 

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#13 ·
Nothing wrong with a Hyundai, but...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Sonata designed by ItalDesign (Giugiaro)? I think it's a great looking car and definitely a bargain. But...

Hyundai just has no character. How many Mille Miglias, Targa Florios, Le Mans, Grands Prix, etc have Hyundai competed in much less won.

Hyundai will never have the heritage, the soul or the passion that Alfa-Romeo has accumulated and earned in its 93-year history! This can never be taken from the marque regardless of who owns them (Fiat, GM, others?).

I drive an Alfa everyday because of the above-mentioned intangible assets. I need more in my daily drive than just basic transportation.

Garrett
 
#14 ·
Re: absolutely nothing wrong...

dretceterini said:
with a Honda, but a Hyundai that is equivalent, with the same options, is probibly $3,500 less money...and, if I had it, I could buy a 105 series car (or similar) that needed restoration for the difference..
That's where you're wrong Doc. Hyundai does not have a car that is equal to a Honda, or a Toyota for that fact. Hyundai has not earned the reputation for quality, reliability and safety. Hyundai's are less expensive due to their cheap labor costs and poor reputation. When the word "Hyundai" is mentioned, one can't help but recall those crappy disposable first generation Excels. It is for this reason that Hyundai is trying to lure back the buying public with their 10 year/100,000 mile warranties. While Hyundai offers less expensive commuter cars, the public still views buying one as a gamble.

Besides, your point about the cash difference is moot. Not many people pay for their cars in cash. At least not in the real world.
 
#15 ·
equivelant and equal...

do not mean the same thing.

I am talking about comparing (for example) a Hyundai Sonata V-6 with all options including leather and sunroof to a Toyota Camary with V-6 and all the same options; in this case the Toyota is over $4000 more.

Is the Toyota is a "better" car? I think not! The substantially better warranty on the Hyundai, plus the lower price MORE than covers the better "quality" of the Toyota (or Honda).

Hyundais are also now rated by J.D.Power as equals to Honda and both are rated better than Mercedes! The Hyundai of 15 years ago has NOTHING to do with the Hyundai of today...
 
#16 ·
Hmmm.. they are still kind of ugly, especially the Elantra..... yuck. The Elantra would be in the same class as the Honda Civic? The Civic looks 10000 better. And a Alfa 147 looks 10000 better than a Civic. The Tiburon looks ok though. Nice engine too.

I have the new Civic 1.7. It's a good grocery getter. Not sure if I am willing to commute >25 miles each way in a Civic though. I would much rather have a 147 even with a 1.6.

Thank God I have the Milano 3.0 to play around with. I have to drive it a few times a week to relieve the pressure of commuting in the Civic. But the Milano is becoming too much of a race car and so is getting a little less practical. I'm looking at the 164s for sale on this forum....
 
#17 ·
Hyundai?

Are you really saving money when you buy a Hyundai? If you compare the depreciation of the Hyundai to the Honda, I suspect you will find that the Honda costs less. And let's be real, if you buy or lease a new car, your "cost" is the depreciation, the repairs, the fuel, and the interest.

I actually like the Tibiron, I think the styling of the five door elantra is actually very attractive, but I would not even consider them.

I once had a side business where I bought repossesed cars on a Friday afternoon and paid for them on the following Monday morning. This meant that I had to have the car sold during the same weekend. I once brought a Hyundai home, well almost. The car had only 50k miles, but it was such a piece of junk, that I turned around and took it back rather than sell it to someone who would know where I lived. I did not make any money that week, but I didn't have my house fire bombed either!
 
#18 ·
Re: equivelant and equal...

Well let's see here Doc . .

dretceterini said:
equivelant and equal do not mean the same thing.
Merriam-Webster defines:
equivalent - 1 : equal in force, amount, or value; also : equal in area or volume but not admitting of superposition
equal - 1 a (1) : of the same measure, quantity, amount, or number as another (2) : identical in mathematical value or logical denotation : equivalent b : like in quality, nature, or status

Sounds like the same meaning to me.

The Hyundai of 15 years ago has NOTHING to do with the Hyundai of today... [/B]
As I stated previously, the Hyundai's from 15 years ago have everything to do with today's Hyundai's. It's that very reputation that continues to haunt Hyundai. Therefore Hyundai has to offer such a warranty to try to lure customers back.

I have tried to stay out of all these damned Hyundai conversations on the AlfaBB. This has NOTHING to do with Alfa Romeo. I jumped in on this forum because it is not detracting from someone trying to sell their Alfa. But hasn't this horse been beaten to death yet?? We all know that you salute the Hyundai flag, sleep in Hyundai pajamas and on Hyundai bed sheets. :D And thanks to the numerous posts, we all know that Hyundai's quality has greatly improved. Some of us may even consider purchasing a Hyundai as a result. Can we put this to rest now?

Let's debate about those frickin' Kia's! (j/k)
 
#24 ·
Actually...

the general has a point. Alfa's "tradition" is really more with sedans and GTs than with "sports cars"!!

Up to the introduction of the 1900s in 1951, MOST Alfas were atually GTs or sedans, rather than sports cars; even the open cars.

The pre-war and immediate post-war cars, except in the road race versions, were generally pretty big and bulky...but this goes for ALL cars at that time; not just Alfa...

It wasn't really until the 1950s, when the Giuliettas came out, that Alfas really became "sports cars". Of course back than cars were primarilly built for a single purpose; to race or drive on the street...and the term "sports car" wasn't really around until the late 40s..

PERSONALLY, I have little interest in Alfa sedans built after WW2; (especially big cars, like the 164 and 166...just TOO big for my taste) except perhaps for the Giulia Supers and TI Supers.

Nothing wrong with the sedans, but to me, if I'm going to have an Alfa, it will be 105 series or earlier, or one of the modern GTs, like a 147 GTA.

I DO like the 156 sedan and sportswagon...to my mind they are the best looking sedans currently available anywhere..and they are of a "reasonable" size...
 
#25 ·
Re: Actually...

I DO like the 156 sedan and sportswagon...to my mind they are the best looking sedans currently available anywhere..and they are of a "reasonable" size... [/B][/QUOTE]

Actually! Alfa 156 has many choice. You can start from 1.6 L~3.2L.
The best choice is 156 2.0 L Twin Spark. Its much well-balance in front and rear. The weight distributiion is more concern when corning. I am driving a 156 1.8TS for 4 years and I still love it. A 156 2.5L 6MT is too heavy in front causes too many pressure in front tyres and understeering is a challenge.
I believe 156 GTA does the same. The other choice is the new GTV 3.0. It was tuned like a rear weel drive.
 
#26 ·
To me, the most interesting Alfas are by far the 50's and 60's coupes and racecars. So in that respect I couldnt agree more with Dretceterini that the 164 saloon is too big. But, you know; different cars for different uses. I have a family, and every once in a while I need to transport them from one place to another - should I buy a Volvo? In that range of cars, the 75, 155, 156, 164 and 166 are definitely more interesting to drive. So, thats why I picked my first Alfa - a 156 2.5V6 instead of am Audi A4, and when the wife complained that it was too small, I later got an 2.0TS SportWagon - phoned home and told I had bought a Stationwagon - she was real happy - until she saw it! :D Eventually my 3 kids have gotten too big for the 156, and I got a 164 instead. I believe I am putting up a good fight to avoid becoming an owner of the fertility symbol of these days: a minibus!

But as a daily driver, transporting myself to and from work - of course I pick the Junior, and let the wife drive the 164. :)
 
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