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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-06-2016, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
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Not to be rude,but a little heat on my 2.2 conversion on my spider. Is a Alfa Romeo 159 with the 2.2 gas motor a Alfa Romeo? Mid to late 2005- 2009 I believe has a 2.2 or 2.4 JTS ( ECOTEC) engine, thank. You

anyone can buy a Porsche, only Drivers drive a Alfa Romeo
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-07-2016, 08:18 AM
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Bianchi -

Remember, you asked for opinions: here's one

Alfa Romeo is gestalt concept.

It is a selection of components combined together by professional engineers working to meld them together to create a cohesive and synergistic experience in a vehicle.

The combinations are important. A Cobra is an AC Ace roadster combined with a Ford V-8 engine, and various but differing suspension and body modifications. With a Chevrolet engine an AC Ace cannot become a Cobra even if it has all the other elements, and similarly, a Ford engine in a different roadster does not make a Cobra.

The Alfa 159 is a selection of components combined together by Alfa Engineers pursuing a specific and cohesive feel in the car- that gestalt equals an Alfa Romeo.

I understand that you are attempting to argue that your vehicle, with modified bodywork, different albeit Alfa-based GM engine, modified suspension design, T5 transmission, and (I forget whose) brakes, and a revised interior including Miata? seats remains an Alfa Romeo, but it is not, any more than than a Cobra remains an AC Ace. Your car is a "Bianchi"; an American ecceterini. It is no doubt a very fine vehicle and unquestionably superior to the 70's Alfa Spider in which it is based.

I think you should embrace that, and perhaps put your own logo on it, as many proud small car builders/ modifiers like Abarth do. Your car is a great experiment and fascinating to read about. We're glad you're doing what you do and love the mods and improvements. However, a camel is never going to be a horse, no matter how much you beat it.
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71 Spider

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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-08-2016, 07:52 AM
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The Alfa 159 2,2 JTS have an engine block by GM Europa and a cylinder head by Alfa Romeo. the V6 3,2 JTS have an engine bloc by GM Australia (Holden) and cylinder heads by Alfa Romeo. Other parts of the engines such as timing chain (and probably others) are by GM.
No 2,4 JTS engines was offered by Alfa, but a 2,4 Litre in line 5 cylinder JTDM (diesel) was offered on all variants.
On some markets the Berlina (and may be SportWagons) was offered with 1,8 and 1,9 JTS gas engines.
Later in the 159's production life a 1750 Turbo gas engine with 200 HP (2009). As far as I remember the 4 cyl. GM/Alfa engines was discontinued at that time.
Read more about the 156s here The Alfa Romeo pages @ C a r s f r o m I t a l y
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-08-2016, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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how s the head different? besides duel cam phasers? all the valves are the same as my ecotec *** the gaskets... I have downloaded the specs and all machineing to both head and they are the same.. all well tuned 2.2 will do 168 hp( usa ecotec) with no cam phaser.. add thoses you can get 185-195 hp usa..

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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-09-2016, 06:33 AM
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Quote Cars from Italy " The critical part is always the driving experience, and in this area the Alfa 159 continues to excel, with a comprehensive range of engines. Using petrol, three new JTS (direct injection) engines, all with continuous dual variable valve timing (inlet and exhaust), are available : a 3.2 V6 24v (260 bhp), a 2.2 16v (185 bhp) and a 1.9 16v (160 bhp). "

Well, Alfa might have used the engines strait off GM production lines, but marketed the engines as Alfa developments. Power developed are much similar.
It would not be the first time a car manufacture call a bought in part their own.
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-09-2016, 07:18 AM
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Good grief. Maybe you should actually install the **** thing and THEN worry about what everyone thinks.

Chris

1990 Spider Veloce
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-09-2016, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Gv27. Sooner than you think
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anyone can buy a Porsche, only Drivers drive a Alfa Romeo
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-19-2016, 11:21 PM
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I admire the modern 159 looks but it is unlikely that I'll ever own one as I irrationally hate GM, particularly Holden, products and I could never get over that GM connection. This is why, currently, the most modern I will go is the 156.

But yes I concede that the small block Chev v8 is a beauty but that sort of engine is not really my cup of tea anyway.
Pete
ps: if I ever had a chance of purchasing a real 159, I'd not miss it in a heart beat

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 01:19 AM
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We have a 159 ti Sportwagon with the 2.4 JTDM diesel and it is a wonderful car. The looks are stunning and it is joy to drive. The diesel is an Italian engine which is why we went for that. It has tons of grunt and is pretty quick off the line. I'm with Pete on the GM thing. I have never owned a Holden and the last thing I wanted was an Alfa with a Holden engine in it. I had the use of a Brera Spider V6 for four days and it aint no Busso, that's for sure. We have owned seven Busso engined Alfas and currently have two 12 valve 3 litre 75s and my GT 3.2. Once you have owned a Busso it is impossible to live with a Holden.

Current Alfas
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
!989 75 3 litre (black). Shared project with my son.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.

Past Alfas
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 02:47 AM
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Alfa Romeo does not exist any more since 1986 when FIAT bought the brand, the properties and the plants after having suffered annual losses from 1973-1986 in continuity.

Today's cars are only named "Alfa Romeo" but in reality just are differently badged FIATs as "LANCIAs" are a "badge engineering" mix of FIAT, Chrysler and still some Daimler parts.

Last example of Alfa Romeo fully own engine development is the TS engine based on the Nord block for the 75/Milano.

A modern 8C is just a beautiful bodied Maser and a 4C is a carbon fibre bodied FIAT. The same with the renowned ABARTH brand; today just a marketing brand. ABARTH as a true manufacturer stopped existing when Carlo Abarth sold the brand NAME and the plant to FIAT in 1971.

Everything else is just adulation of a legend and creating a myth. Alfa, Abarth, and other brands, too.

But not reality.

Last edited by hunttheshunt; 11-20-2016 at 02:53 AM.
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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 04:06 AM
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What about the Busso V6 then? Where are all the non Alfa bits in that apart from electrics? I don't think there are very many parts on my GT that are shared with Fiats.

Current Alfas
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
!989 75 3 litre (black). Shared project with my son.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.

Past Alfas
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 05:39 AM
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Never questioned the Busso V6 not being an origin Alfa engine as it made its launch already in the Seventies.
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 05:53 AM
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The Bosso engine was developed by the engineer with the same sir name (ex Ferrari engineer) while AR was owned by the Italian State. No Fiat parts in that engine.
The C4 body (carbon fibre) is build at Ferrari and the engine is a development of the Alfa 159 TI 1750 with an alu block also used in the Giulietta 940 1750 Multi Air. Cast iron engine block as in the 159 1750 TI.
That engine is as far as I know not used in any other models from the FCA group.
NB! Maybe the Dodge Dart GTs have the Multi Air version of the engine.

Last edited by Erik; 11-20-2016 at 06:40 AM.
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunttheshunt View Post
Today's cars are only named "Alfa Romeo" but in reality just are differently badged FIATs as "LANCIAs" are a "badge engineering" mix of FIAT, Chrysler and still some Daimler parts.

Last example of Alfa Romeo fully own engine development is the TS engine based on the Nord block for the 75/Milano.

only MIto is Fiat based, all other Alfas are unique all have their own platform, last real Alfa engine used in Alfa car was busso V6. Alfa has more Ferrari/Maserati in its blood than Fiat nowadays. Im not sure if you know enough of Alfa Romeo if you write such comments.

-Antti: --ex Alfas:155 2.0 8V '92,155 2.0 16V '96,156 V6 '98,156 V6 '02
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Last edited by Vsix; 11-20-2016 at 06:23 AM.
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2016, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsix View Post
only MIto is Fiat based, all other Alfas are unique all have their own platform, last real Alfa engine used in Alfa car was busso V6. Alfa has more Ferrari/Maserati in its blood than Fiat nowadays. Im not sure if you know enough of Alfa Romeo if you write such comments.
My thoughts too Veesix.

Current Alfas
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
!989 75 3 litre (black). Shared project with my son.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.

Past Alfas
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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