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Alfa's new diesels? Can any tell me about them?

6K views 45 replies 20 participants last post by  Tdogg 
#1 ·
Hello,

I hope someone can help me here....

I am not familiar with the new alfa diesels, as there seems to be a wide variety of motors and tune. I understand there is the 1.9l JTD, and a 21.4JTD. ANd there seems to be different power levels for each.

Which is the best to get? And what is the difference between the 1.9 and the 2.4?

I have a special need for just the motor, and am looking for one. Just need to make the best choice of the motor.

Really appreciate any help.

Thanks!

-- brett
 
#2 ·
Brad,

Get the 2.4L MJET 20V 5-cylinder has 175 bhp. The one in the 159 about 200 bhp? If packaging is a problem, then maybe you need to think about the 4 cyl 1.9 16V version.

But these need low sulphur diesel. Can you get it locally?
 
#3 ·
75evo said:
Brad,

Get the 2.4L MJET 20V 5-cylinder has 175 bhp. The one in the 159 about 200 bhp? If packaging is a problem, then maybe you need to think about the 4 cyl 1.9 16V version.

But these need low sulphur diesel. Can you get it locally?

I was wondering if the 2.4 was a 5 cylinder. Ok. That makes it a 1.9l then. And I am going to be using biodiesel. ;)

Thanks for the answer! And I found someplace where they claim 137hp for the 1.9l. But there was a lot of different hp ratings....

-- brett
 
#4 ·
Make sure it's the DOHC 16V version and not older 8V. My guess is the 8V is only 110 bhp. But even the 16V has 2-3 versions. If I am not mistake, the most recent one has 150 bhp. Looks like every year they bumped the bhp.
 
#6 ·
75evo said:
Make sure it's the DOHC 16V version and not older 8V. My guess is the 8V is only 110 bhp. But even the 16V has 2-3 versions. If I am not mistake, the most recent one has 150 bhp. Looks like every year they bumped the bhp.

Good point. I have contacted some european vendors and have a quote on the motor. Just need to make sure I am getting the right one.

Thanks!

-- brett
 
#9 ·
DaveH said:
Don't you need to use regular diesel for startup with a bio system? Also for shutdown?

I read somewhere lately that low sulphur is on the way...finally.
I will be using processed biodiesel. Just put it in the tank and run it like regular diesel. (You can even brew it in your garage.)

There is a way of just putting raw veggie oil in a holding tank and running it as you go, but you have to start up with diesel. That is not the way I am going to do it.

-- brett
 
#10 ·
Ahhh. Thanks for the clarification.

I am intrigued by the diesel alternatives. There are a number of old 240Ds driving 'round Atlanta running on the stuff. There's a guy with a 'filling station' not far from where I live. At Road ATL over the weekend there were veggie Mercs from Canton, GA. Alt diesel is spreading, it seems.

1 day I will put the 16V JTD into a Spider. Just to make the local AROC chapter collectively shriek in horror, of course. :)

BTW, the feds don't like individuals 'refining' and 'distributing' - I suppose you already know this.

Good luck with yr project.
 
#11 ·
DaveH said:
Ahhh. Thanks for the clarification.

I am intrigued by the diesel alternatives. There are a number of old 240Ds driving 'round Atlanta running on the stuff. There's a guy with a 'filling station' not far from where I live. At Road ATL over the weekend there were veggie Mercs from Canton, GA. Alt diesel is spreading, it seems.

1 day I will put the 16V JTD into a Spider. Just to make the local AROC chapter collectively shriek in horror, of course. :)

BTW, the feds don't like individuals 'refining' and 'distributing' - I suppose you already know this.

Good luck with yr project.
Dave,

And so am i. That is part of the reason for doing this. And I haven't decided what the donor car for the jtd will be. A friend wants me to put it into a spider. I want do use a berlina or something similar. (I would love to use a GTV6 or milano. not sure if the ARB will let me do that. )

And I am starting to look into garage production of biodiesel. (for my own and family use of course.)

-- brett
 
#12 ·
1.9 JTD was available in a 8v (Unijet) 100 bhp, 110 bhp, 115 bhp version. Nowadays the 1.9 JTDm 8v produces 120 bhp.

There is also the 16v (MJet) version that used to deliver 126 bhp (Belgian market) or 140 bhp. Nowadays the 1.9 JTDm 16v produces 150 bhp.

The 2.4 JTD 10v - 5 cylinder (Unijet) delivered 136 bhp and 150 bhp. This engine is not available anymore

The 2.4 JTD 20v - 5 cylinder (Mjet) used to deliver 175 bhp. Nowadays the 2.4 JTDm 20v delivers 180 bhp or 200 bhp.
 
#13 ·
Hans said:
1.9 JTD was available in a 8v (Unijet) 100 bhp, 110 bhp, 115 bhp version. Nowadays the 1.9 JTDm 8v produces 120 bhp.

There is also the 16v (MJet) version that used to deliver 126 bhp (Belgian market) or 140 bhp. Nowadays the 1.9 JTDm 16v produces 150 bhp.

The 2.4 JTD 10v - 5 cylinder (Unijet) delivered 136 bhp and 150 bhp. This engine is not available anymore

The 2.4 JTD 20v - 5 cylinder (Mjet) used to deliver 175 bhp. Nowadays the 2.4 JTDm 20v delivers 180 bhp or 200 bhp.

Excellent! THanks Hans. This is exactly the kind of info that I needed. This will help greatly in getting the correct engine. :)

So, I want to get the 1.9 JTDm 16V. :)

Thanks!

-- brett
 
#14 ·
Hans said:
1.9 JTD was available in a 8v (Unijet) 100 bhp, 110 bhp, 115 bhp version. Nowadays the 1.9 JTDm 8v produces 120 bhp.

There is also the 16v (MJet) version that used to deliver 126 bhp (Belgian market) or 140 bhp. Nowadays the 1.9 JTDm 16v produces 150 bhp.

The 2.4 JTD 10v - 5 cylinder (Unijet) delivered 136 bhp and 150 bhp. This engine is not available anymore

The 2.4 JTD 20v - 5 cylinder (Mjet) used to deliver 175 bhp. Nowadays the 2.4 JTDm 20v delivers 180 bhp or 200 bhp.
Hans,


I am bumping this back to the top. I need some more info, or where to look.

What I want to do: Put a modern diesel into an older alfa. I have been told by one exporter that this is impossible to do.

Do you know what alfa that the diesels will fit into? ANd what the bellhousing bolt pattern is like? even a manual someplace I can order would help.

Thanks for you help in the past.

-- brett
 
#15 ·
What plans do you have transmission wise? Since all the current Alfa's are FWD finding a suitable RWD gearbox is out of the question. Only option is to find a 156 1.9 JTDm with the fourwheel drive :p Otherwise you would have to fabricate a new bellhousing yourself. I'm not aware that there's any drawings of the bolt pattern available online. I just had a look in the 156 and 147 workshop manuals and there were no info on the bolt pattern in there either.

The diesel range of engines is fairly new, meaning they are not backwards compatible with any of the old gearboxes, say from a 164.

Furthermore I would be very wary about running anything but diesel in commonrail diesel engines. They do require fuel of a certain quality or the internals of the highpressure pump and injectors will suffer irrepairable damage. For instance, run a commonrail diesel car dry a couple of times and you're looking at a repair bill of gigantic proportions. :eek:

Don't hesitate to PM me if you think I can be of any assistance.
 
#16 ·
Hoygaard said:
What plans do you have transmission wise? Since all the current Alfa's are FWD finding a suitable RWD gearbox is out of the question. Only option is to find a 156 1.9 JTDm with the fourwheel drive :p Otherwise you would have to fabricate a new bellhousing yourself. I'm not aware that there's any drawings of the bolt pattern available online. I just had a look in the 156 and 147 workshop manuals and there were no info on the bolt pattern in there either.

The diesel range of engines is fairly new, meaning they are not backwards compatible with any of the old gearboxes, say from a 164.

Furthermore I would be very wary about running anything but diesel in commonrail diesel engines. They do require fuel of a certain quality or the internals of the highpressure pump and injectors will suffer irrepairable damage. For instance, run a commonrail diesel car dry a couple of times and you're looking at a repair bill of gigantic proportions. :eek:

Don't hesitate to PM me if you think I can be of any assistance.
Thanks. Appreciate it very much. Found an Alfa 75 with a TD on ebay. So, I know there exists a Turbo Diesel that will fit US spec cars. Now, I just need to find one for sale. (That I an import here.) I am much more encouraged now. :)

Do you have any info on the 75 TD? I believe it is a turbo diesel of 2000cc. Not sure what the ratings of the motor is. Or any other specifics.

I will be using commercial biodiesel in the beginning, which is identical in purity as regular diesel. (In fact, reports are that it is actually cleaner and better for the motor.)

Again, thanks for your help.

-- brett
 
#17 ·
Group,

Here's interesting information regarding ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel) fuel. If correct, a European Alfa Diesel engine could be run on Conoco-Phillips diesel fuel. I buy this for our diesel motorhome at "Flying J" truckstops, although a few of their locations in the midwest have signs indicating other fuel suppliers.

"I just read in Wards Auto world - '05 September issue pg. 7 --------The US government is forcing oil companies to phase in ultra low sulfer diesel AND gasoline begining next year.LeeR
That's not exactly true. The US government is NOT forcing anyone. They set up the rules and regs in 2000 to take effect in 2006-7. Anyone who has been purchasing Conoco/Phillips diesel fuels in the USA has been using ULSD since 2003. Now the rest of the refiners are following Conoco's lead to produce the same Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel fuels".


75evo said:
Brad,

Get the 2.4L MJET 20V 5-cylinder has 175 bhp. The one in the 159 about 200 bhp? If packaging is a problem, then maybe you need to think about the 4 cyl 1.9 16V version.

But these need low sulphur diesel. Can you get it locally?
 
#18 ·
You need to look at the torq of it and the RPM range.
I bet it runs very slow and the torq is a monstor. This will break any normal trany. you will need to get a trany and rear end that is sized for a Diesel. For RWD look at some small trucks. I think everything else is FWD.
A toyota tranny might hold up they run them with gas 1000hp with the suped up supras but I think the torq of a Diesel might be even too much for a toyota gas tranny
 
#19 ·
Bfrymire,

Interesting project.... crossed my mind for a clapped out spider. Something to think about - not all td units deliver the power in a useful or exciting way. I tried them all!!

For example compare a 137 HDI (Peugeot) with a 130 VAG group engine in a similar weight car. The 137 will feel like its standing still.

If an Alfa TD wont fit to the box, why not go for a VAG unit. Low emmissins ( cheap tax - if it applies) plenty about, average 54mpg + probably more in a spider, some with AWD gearboxes to give you RWD. A 150/300+nm should give you 0-60 in under 8sec and 50-70 in under 4sec

Good luck
 
#20 ·
Sprintman27 said:
Bfrymire,

Interesting project.... crossed my mind for a clapped out spider. Something to think about - not all td units deliver the power in a useful or exciting way. I tried them all!!

For example compare a 137 HDI (Peugeot) with a 130 VAG group engine in a similar weight car. The 137 will feel like its standing still.

If an Alfa TD wont fit to the box, why not go for a VAG unit. Low emmissins ( cheap tax - if it applies) plenty about, average 54mpg + probably more in a spider, some with AWD gearboxes to give you RWD. A 150/300+nm should give you 0-60 in under 8sec and 50-70 in under 4sec

Good luck
Thanks. A friend keeps pushing me to put a TD into a spider.

The VAG units are really nice, clean, and efficient. But, it's not an alfa. Part of the "plan" is to keep the car all Alfa. To be truthful, if I feel I am going to use a VAG unit, I would scrap the whole idea, and just go buy a Jetta. :)

Thanks for your inputs, as you are thinking somewhat the same way I am thinking.

-- brett
 
#22 ·
Sprintman27 said:
All due respect keepimg it all Alfa. In the end I went for an original unit with Dellortos.

Still enjoying the Turbo? I had a 92 as my last daily driver

All the best

Richard
True, but then it's a different project. Not the end that I want achieve. :)

Yep. Going to buy something else soon. Mine has a chip and some other mods to it, and it is very fast. Amazing what a turbo can do for performance. :D
 
#23 ·
Hi Brett,

How are you going to make bio-diesel at home. The transesterification of vegetable oil requires ethanol/methanol for processing, produces glycerin as a byproduct (which has to be separated) and of course the excess alcohol also has to be removed.

It's always struck me as a highly impractical / costly thing to do at home. Will you be making proper bio-diesel, or is this a variant of SVO (straight vegetable oil).

Thanks,
Nick
 
#24 ·
NikosF said:
Hi Brett,

How are you going to make bio-diesel at home. The transesterification of vegetable oil requires ethanol/methanol for processing, produces glycerin as a byproduct (which has to be separated) and of course the excess alcohol also has to be removed.

It's always struck me as a highly impractical / costly thing to do at home. Will you be making proper bio-diesel, or is this a variant of SVO (straight vegetable oil).

Thanks,
Nick
The intent is to be running Biodiesel. I will start off by using commercial biodiesel, and then I may look into making biodiesel at home. There are some legal constraints to consider as well. I bought the book by Josh Tickle, and read it. Seems to be fairly easy. The intial startup cost of making biodiesel is steep and the payoff period is about 2 years or so. (This is based on the mileage I am expecting to get, the miles I drive and the cost of the materials.) There is a kit already available that is STEEP. ($3k) That would take closer to 5 years. I think that kit is more intended for a co-op.

-- brett
 
#25 ·
bfrymire said:
The intent is to be running Biodiesel. I will start off by using commercial biodiesel, and then I may look into making biodiesel at home. There are some legal constraints to consider as well. I bought the book by Josh Tickle, and read it. Seems to be fairly easy. The intial startup cost of making biodiesel is steep and the payoff period is about 2 years or so. (This is based on the mileage I am expecting to get, the miles I drive and the cost of the materials.) There is a kit already available that is STEEP. ($3k) That would take closer to 5 years. I think that kit is more intended for a co-op.

-- brett
Ah - good. There are a lot of people that think you can throw in simple strained veggie oil into a Diesel (the old two tank trick, etc.). Especially with a high-powered Alfa diesel - you need real bio-diesel - i.e. you need to do the transesterification. On the Internet (and a lot of folks in the UK) think that it's not important - but it is. Sounds like you are on the right track. Will be very interested to hear once you start making your homebrew. GOod luck.
 
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