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06-11-2008, 12:57 PM
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Missed it... wasn't aware that it was on Fox. But... I guess it is being aired on Speed this evening.?.? Was Kimi theoredically (I understand we are dealing with pit stops here) leading when Hamilton use him as a crash test wall?
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06-11-2008, 01:18 PM
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Hamilton was leading from Pole... they went in for safety car pit stops and Kimi came out first but the pit lane exit was closed. Kimi and Kubi were sitting at the pit end at the light waiting for a very exciting drag race when Hamilton flew into the end of Kimi after swerving to the left to avoid Kubi then Rosburg slammed into Hamilton.
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06-11-2008, 01:41 PM
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with the Librarian
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintn
Missed it... wasn't aware that it was on Fox.
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Jim
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06-11-2008, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintn
Missed it... wasn't aware that it was on Fox. But... I guess it is being aired on Speed this evening.?.? Was Kimi theoredically (I understand we are dealing with pit stops here) leading when Hamilton use him as a crash test wall?
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06-11-2008, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE: Raikonnen passed Hamilton in the pits because...
Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Remember when passing use to happen on the track between the front runners?!?!? THere are some awesome videos on Youtube of great passes!!! One was Nelson Pique"s awesome pass around Senna on the outside in a complete four wheel drift... another was senna passing 4 cars in one lap... the first lap... going from 5th after turn one to first in the 93 race at Donnington! But there where many other great videos of great passes! Gilles and ???? passing each other multiple times each lap! I really think F1 needs to do away with being so reliant on Aero Grip and concentrate more on Mechanical Grip. Mechanical grip is has so much more feel and is more predictable to how much you will loose when your car gets sideways. I'm not sure Aero grip even works when you are sidways.?.? I would imagine it is more fun for the drivers to work with and manipulate when sidways in a turn as well.?.?
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06-11-2008, 07:39 PM
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The best way to get passing to happen again is to get rid of pitstops. No matter what changes happen to the car, modern drivers will not risk it and use a strategic pitstop to pass instead.
All those videos/passes you discussed were back in the days before Bernie thought adding pitstops would make his TV show more interesting. Bernie has been wrong many times ...
Pete
Last edited by PSk; 06-11-2008 at 07:44 PM.
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06-12-2008, 08:43 AM
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But... pitstops without refueling seemed to work well. THen it is all about tires and who is better able to use and preserve them... pit less. THe problem with the one set of tire rule a couple of years ago was that the drivers still had to pit for fuel.
AND... THe cars were less relient on aero grip back, up to the mid 90's, therefor less disturbed when close to another car or when the yaw of the car isn't exactly in a straight line in relation to the direction the car is traveling.
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06-15-2008, 04:30 PM
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Any pitstop gives them the option ... they have to go!
Passing is possible now, the drivers just choose not to take the risk.
Pete
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06-16-2008, 11:59 AM
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But... if a driver is qood with his tires he may not have to go in as often or... if a driver is good with his tires they can preserve them for the final chase at or near the end where as, the driver who may be in the lead, may not be as good with his tires or may have been too hard on them in order get the lead that he has and may be loosing grip with, say, 15 laps to go, and may "Have to go" into the pits. All the while... the guy chasing him may have used his tires in such a way that he can catch and make it to the end of the race.
THe way a driver uses fuel is, for all intent and purposed, fixed and the same from one driver to the next. But... this is not the case for tires. IMHO  |
06-16-2008, 04:25 PM
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Understood ... but do you want to see passing on the track or not.
The only definite way is to ban pitstops. I've been watching F1 since the early 80's ... and the racing was way better before any form of pitstop came along.
I'm also a huge club racing fan (used to race in them), and those short sprint races (ie. normally less than 10 laps) with little or no sponsorship and most definitely no pitstops is miles better racing than any modern F1 race. Those guys race for racings sake ... not to make money and not to keep a boss happy, or a sponsors name circulating for N TV minutes.
Anybody that hasn't been to their local circuit and watched REAL motor racing, should just go. F1 pales in comparison ... unless you are only into peripherial money wasting distractions  .
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06-16-2008, 04:39 PM
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I think you would still see passing because you do away with fuel strategy... ie when to run light or how much to qualify with. I think we need to go back to the old style of Quali too.. where you go out for an hour to quali in quali trim.
I know what you mean. Sometimes it is as if drivers are afraid to attempt a pass because if may ruin their overall championship points. It seems like back in the day of Senna and even Nelson Senior, or Gilles... they just wanted to WIN!!! their ego from race to race would not allow them to be concerened with the overall championship. Each individual race is what mattered to them and they would pull off some sensational passes! Now... it's TOO much about the overall Championship or acting like a "Mature" driver.?.? Maybe more points need to be awarded for a win vs the remaining of places putting more emphasis on winning and less on just bringing it home safely.?.?
Maybe you and I just need to become president of the FIA and make F1 racing again!?!? |
06-16-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintn
Maybe you and I just need to become president of the FIA and make F1 racing again!?!? |
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06-16-2008, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintn
I think you would still see passing because you do away with fuel strategy... ie when to run light or how much to qualify with. I think we need to go back to the old style of Quali too.. where you go out for an hour to quali in quali trim.
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I know what you mean. Sometimes it is as if drivers are afraid to attempt a pass because if may ruin their overall championship points. It seems like back in the day of Senna and even Nelson Senior, or Gilles... they just wanted to WIN!!! their ego from race to race would not allow them to be concerened with the overall championship. Each individual race is what mattered to them and they would pull off some sensational passes! Now... it's TOO much about the overall Championship or acting like a "Mature" driver.?.? Maybe more points need to be awarded for a win vs the remaining of places putting more emphasis on winning and less on just bringing it home safely.?.?
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Amen
Pete
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06-17-2008, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintn
...Sometimes it is as if drivers are afraid to attempt a pass because if may ruin their overall championship points. It seems like back in the day of Senna and even Nelson Senior, or Gilles... they just wanted to WIN!!! their ego from race to race would not allow them to be concerened with the overall championship. Each individual race is what mattered to them and they would pull off some sensational passes! Now... it's TOO much about the overall Championship or acting like a "Mature" driver.?.? Maybe more points need to be awarded for a win vs the remaining of places putting more emphasis on winning and less on just bringing it home safely.?.?
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Piquet Sr. and Villeneuve pere, both of whom I saw race, didn't have to contend with sophisticated aero packages that completely disturb airflow behind. This makes it nearly impossible to tuck in behind another car in a fast turn. The following car has to keep more distance in order not to lose all front downforce, and can't get as good a launch onto the next straight to set up a pass at the end of that straight.
An even bigger issue is brakes. Even former F1 drivers who test the current cars are astounded by the improvements in brakes; carbon/carbon brakes have reduced the braking distances so much that it's now much harder to outbrake another car. For a given turn, if 'old school' iron/metallic brakes required, say, a 200-foot brake zone, a 20% difference between one driver/car combination and another represented 40'--enough to make the pass. If that same brake zone is reduced to 100' (or less) by carbon/carbon brakes, the same 20% edge only represents a 20' difference--very tough to get it done, particularly when you couldn't get as good a launch out of the last corner. It's all a bit too easy to say that the current crop of drivers just doesn't want to win enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintn
...Maybe you and I just need to become president of the FIA and make F1 racing again!?!? |
Again, with all due respect, I don't think you've got the qualifications. Good ideas aren't nearly enough. Are you into S&M? Can you afford $5000 hookers??
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06-17-2008, 03:20 AM
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