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F1 2016...

29K views 361 replies 32 participants last post by  iachella 
#1 ·
Thank the 'racing-gods' Alonso walked-away-from that very scary crash!

Once again Ferrari's tire 'strategy' screws-up a fantastic GP for my RedTeam...no idea why Ferrari didn't use the 'red-flag' opportunity to switch tires...idiotic!

Regards
 
#2 ·
From the crappy qualifying format, to the very scary Alonso wreck (I can't believe he walked away), to the red flag that screwed up what would have been a very interesting strategy battle...

Yet, the jump at the start, the various mid pack battles and Haas scoring an incredible 8 points in its first race, made it interesting and engaging.

I like to think we have more than a few intriguing things going on, and a pitched battle between Mercedes and Ferrari. Poor Kimi seems to have the bad luck v Vettle. Much like the problems that Webber had when matched with Sebastian.

McLaren looks clueless again.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Turn 3 has claimed a few over the years... Yeah good to see Alonso walk away unscathed.

Good to have the F1 Circus in town always creates a buzz around town.

Couldn't get there this year due to work commitments but they mustn't be too much louder yet as i still couldn't hear them from my workplace (used to hear them from our building in the past!)

Cheers.
 
#4 ·
I have to admit that I haven't been a fan of the "Red Team" since my hero, Gilles Villeneuve, drove for them.

I was especially not a fan during their Schumacher era. Watching him win every race was boring in the extreme.

Actually, the fact that Ferrari doesn't win every race, despite all the power that they have in F1, should be looked upon as disgraceful by any person or entity associated with the Scuderia.

It's not like they they're playing with a deck that's been stacked in their favor- they get to stack the deck themselves!

Alfa may have been absorbed by the Fiat group, but to me, Ferrari will never be Alfa Romeo, or Lancia, or Maserati.

If I had the money (and after buying my yachts, mansions, cars, planes, etc... :wink2:) I would buy Alfa and re-instate their autonomy. Then I'd bring back an independent Alfa F1 team and kick some butt!

I haven't checked my recent lottery tickets yet, so If I have about 20 winners in that stack- the new Alfa F1 team is ready to roll! :laugh2:

I'm now more a fan of the sport, and not individuals or teams, but having said said that, I guess at heart I'm still a Williams fan. I remember buying the autobiographies of Alan Jones and Keke Rosberg when I was young.

Glad to see the race was interesting today. Disheartened to see the same 3 drivers on the podium, even if they worked a little harder to get there today.

Glad to see Alonso is OK- that was a scary one! Sad to see his talents (and Button's) wasted for another year at McL.

Encouraged by Haas. I hope they can build on this result.

Sadly, I think Kimi's steam is gone, and if it's not, the Red Team has anointed Vettel as it's darling, so the best that Kimi could ever hope for is the spot behind Mr. Multi-21.

As far as the qualifying debacle, anyone who has ever watched an F1 qualifying session could come up with 10 reasons why the new format wouldn't work. A regular fan could come up with at least 25!

This is just the latest sign of a sport that is clueless. Let's fix things that aren't broken and hope that no one notices the things that are.

We can't figure out a rule to make cars that can pass each other on track, so let's give them a "Tonya Harding" button on their steering wheel so we can bestow an unfair advantage on every driver that has the guts to actually approach another car on track. Yeah- that's great! Look at all the passing! We're f...ing heros!

Let's make rules that require crazily expensive and complicated engines every few years that guarantee that only the one manufacturer that "got it right" can win consistently.

Let's take polls of what the fans want, and then TOTALLY IGNORE them!

Every other sport in the world (make that every ACTIVITY in the world) has embraced social media. Bernie's thinking is "I don't understand it, so we don't need it" and he is not inclined to have someone explain it to him, nor hire someone to do it for him- that might take a couple of quid out of his purse.

Sadly (for me), F1 for most of my life has been the only sport I cared about, and as you American F1 fans know- that's not a popular position to be in. With everything that has happened to this sport in the last 20 years, I have to ask myself why I'm still a fan- I wish I had a good answer.

I guess I'm just too old and too lazy to learn and follow a new sport.

I hear they're going to start drone racing... Hey- that's gotta be more exciting than modern F1, right?
 
#5 ·
Pretty good analysis. At least Bernie is 85 years old. His time will be up soon and hopefully it will lead to positive change in the sport. I've yet to meet an F1 fan that thinks he's doing a good job.
 
#8 ·
@rcmanners:

I thought it was announced that F1 was going back to the 'qualifying like last year's'.....(?)
You're right! And wrong!

After the AUS GP, all the team bosses got together and UNANIMOUSLY voted to scrap the system. Everyone thought it was a done deal- but it still had to be ratified by the F1 Strategy Group. Guess what? They DIDN'T! :surprise:

For the first time in over 15 years, I'm not going to bother to watch qualifying this weekend.

This is a sport that truly hates its' fans. Not a good position for any spectator sport... :frown2:
 
#10 · (Edited)
Without him there wouldn´t be any F1 scene any more.
I will admit that Bernie brought F1 into the modern age when he started his orchestration of the sport, but his myopic leadership in the last 15 years or so has been the ruin of the sport.

I won't go into the good things that have happened under Bernie, because to be honest, the list is long and impressive. He's done many good things for the sport- in the past...

But I think the bad list is pretty long, and pretty bad. Under Bernie we have had grooved tires introduced (and thankfully eliminated), engines that have gone from majestic V-10s that could rev near 20k rpm (and sounded AWESOME) to V-8s to V-6s with an electrical junkyard strapped to their backsides that sound like crap and are almost as slow as a GP2 car (at 10 times the price- maybe 20 times?). We have DRS zones where now, if you have a car that is marginally faster (or slower!) than the car ahead of you, you get a free pass at least once every lap!

Refueling- in, out, in, out...

Tire warmers- threatened to be removed every once in a while, then retained due to safety reasons! Really? They can't figure out a way to drive safely on cold tires?

Ground effect. Until Colin Chapman came along it didn't even apply, then it was perfected, over-developed, and ultimately banned. Modern high performance road cars now use it- and the pinnacle of the world of motorsport has to use a "legality plank" under the car to make sure it's NOT being used!

Wings! Look at those delicate over-thought sculptures on the front of F1 cars. How is it possible that drivers lose parts of their wings and still go fast- and even win races? All those thing do is guarantee a shower of sharp carbon-fiber covering the track at intervals.

Wheels and tires- my 1987 Spider came stock with 14" wheels. My 100hp Scion daily driver now has 17" wheels on it! F1 has stuck to 13" wheels forever. Why? Yes, I know- next year they're finally changing. 25 years too late for me...

We have had team orders in, team orders out, in, out,...

Tilke tracks... He's gotta go with Bernie- and soon! Not one driver or spectator puts a Tilke track at the top of their list of greats.

Thanks to Bernie, we have the most technologically advanced high performance power systems ever conceived for an automobile, requiring a fleet of engineers to design, program, build, and maintain them, and a steering wheel in the ****pit with more bells and whistles than the Space Shuttle had. Now, they've limited what the support staff can say to the driver! I'll bet you Neil Armstrong had fewer controls in the Lunar Module than Lewis has in his Merc, but Neil had all of Mission Control in Houston backing him up!

So- this is a team sport. That's what they say. If you build these mega complex machines, then it's ridiculous to limit what can be said on the radio! What's the point in the data gathering and complexity if you can't relay it and deploy it? They've engineered the system, and then they realize how screwed up it is, and they think that curtailing radio chatter is making a better show?! How many people in the stands in Melbourne do you think were listening to (or caring about) what was being said on the radios?! Even on TV coverage, they have teams of people monitoring the radios for a juicy bit to put on the air. I wonder how many people are being paid by the FIA to listen to and transcribe radio communications and report possible rules violations. What a waste! The teams should take a page out of the allies in WW2 and all speak Navaho on the radios!

I wonder, if you took all of the "green energy" crap off of these engines- with all of their weight, and you optimized the existing engines to run without them, which would be faster? I'll bet a stripped down (hence lighter) modern F1 car would run rings around it's hybrid-hampered twin.

I accept that the cost pressures are enormous (I remember when BMW made special qualifying engines that made over 1500hp out of a 1.5 liter turbo, but was only designed to do one quali run before being scrapped- and they weren't alone!) Those were great days for us spectators, but I know they are behind us. I'm OK with that. We need to cap costs, and the limited number of components like engines, transmissions, etc. seems to be a great way to do that. We need more clear thinking like that. Does it effect the show? Nope.

What about the spare car? Teams can't have a built spare car ready to go! Why not? They're allowed to have all the parts for a spare car, and they're allowed to build one from parts if one is wiped out over a weekend. Why is this smart?

Suppose a driver wrecks his car badly in P3. The team has to work its' butts off fixing that car or building a new one- and if they build it, it won't be ready for quali. One less driver for the show (the quali show at least- they give free passes to Sunday's show because they know how screwed up their own rules are.)

Same in quali- say a driver gets a time good enough to put him in the show, then wrecks. Team must blow curfew to build a new car overnight.

How about a problem Sunday morning? OK- put him in the back of the grid, but put him in the show in a spare car! Sometimes the charges from the back are the best action on the track...

It's the inconsistencies in the sport that ruin it. Stop building up one end of the sport and hobbling it on the other. It all goes back to the lack of clear thinking management- and Bernie is at the top of the list.

Anyway, I'm ranting enough.

Lewis has said he'd like to have a simpler car.

I dream of a re-imagined F1 car from the 60s- roughly cigar-shaped, V-8, V-10, or V-12 in back, maybe 2 liters give or take, no turbos, no hybrids. BIG FAT TIRES. Tiny wings, throw in some ground effect. Manual gearboxes- 6 speed max. Refueling is OK, total fuel for the race restricted. At least 2 tire compounds. Free choice of gear ratios. Talk all you like on the radio. One 3-position switch allowed in the ****pit for engine management- economy, normal, thirsty. Adjust brake bias all you want. No other buttons- no diff, engine mapping, clutch settings, etc.

Bet you'll get some great racing on the track!

Wanna generate more enthusiasm? Require the basic engine to be homogolated by using them in a road car- minimum run of, let's say 200 units. Think of the excitement (and marketing potential) of an F1 engine in a limited edition Ferrari, Mercedes, Honda, or Lexus! Kind of like the Dino and F2. I guarantee they'll all be sold before they're built! :grin2:

Anyway- remember the show! People don't care about who can manipulate the buttons on his steering wheel better than the next guy!

I'll keep dreaming. Someday we'll have world peace, famine and disease will be eliminated, and Bernie and Tilke will be gone.... Ahhh... 0:)
 
#11 · (Edited)
rcmanners said:
and Tilke will be gone.... Ahhh... 0:)
(W.T.F) and why always against Tilke ? Isn´t Abu Dhabi really exciting for that given topography ? What about COTA ? Turkey ? Sepang ?

This guy is just doing what his job is. Bernie makes an order, somebody pays for it and Tilke is executing. He can´t do different, he gets an order and he has to fulfill.

Era of Hugenholtz´track design, when nobody was asking for any safety requirements of a race track, is gone. Since decades.
 
#12 ·
OK- he's doing his job, and he is fulfilling his contracts to the best of his ability, I guess...

I don't know how much freedom he's given. Maybe he can do better. Maybe I can do better... Maybe you can do better... I don't know...

He's not the worst part of F1, but he's a symptom.

I guess more of an issue is the tracks he designed that probably shouldn't have been built in the first place. Places like India, Korea, and Turkey where many millions of dollars were spent in some places that can ill-afford it. It was sad to see all the poor people surrounding the race in India- $400 million that was wasted on that circuit for 3 F1 races and a few lesser championship races. Looks to be almost unused these days based on their website schedule.

Building an F1 track in a country with virtually zero motorsports history doesn't serve anyone well. I know the arguments- they are building a motorsports program, it's local investors that wanted the project, etc. Doesn't fly for me. It makes F1 look bad.

What about Monaco and Singapore? OK- obvious places where there's no local motorsports history other than the races held there by international series. They've proven their value over time. They're good for F1, and F1 is good for them.

But what about Sochi and Azerbaijan? Only time will tell if they were wise decisions...

I know- F1 wants to cover the world. Lots of countries want F1 so the world will think they're a world power in whatever they want to schill... but it's the responsibility of the management of F1 to maintain F1's image.

F1 should not be in places with serious human rights issues or major social problems. It should not lend legitimacy to oppressive rulers in places like Bahrain (yes- I know, the US Navy has a BIG presence in Bahrain- I'll change that once I'm elected President!) >:)

It certainly doesn't belong in places with human rights issues, and where they can't fill the grandstands! Think China...

F1 took way too long to cancel South Africa, and they haven't learned a thing from it.

If I were a potential sponsor, and I saw F1 going to China, Bahrain, Azerbaijan (have you seen their record on censorship and freedom of the press?) and even Abu Dhabi, I'd look elsewhere for exposure, especially if I had a product of interest to women.

I know the argument here too... Sports and politics are completely separate. Yeah...Right... BTW, I have a nice antique bridge that I'm selling in Brooklyn, you interested?

I hope that the World Cup corruption debacle will help to serve notice to clean up other sports as well, including F1. Based on Bernie's recent court appearances, I'm not holding my breath. I wonder how much cash fell off the trucks in front of Bernie's cars in some of those countries... :surprise:

OK- Tilke is not the devil incarnate, but I'm not kneeling down at his alter anytime soon...

BTW- a little danger is a good thing...

OK Mr. Shunt! Hit me with your next shot! :wink2:

-Ray
 
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#13 ·
Bernie may not officially set the rules, but he has a LOT of influence over every aspect of the sport's future. So much power in F1 is concentrated into him that he could make widespread changes if and when he wants to, but I agree- the FIA and the team principals are not good custodians of the sport in any case.

As far as "reverse grids" and such, some problems (from my perspective):

First- there are no points in F1 for qualifying. That's part of F1's history, and I think it should remain.

Second- EVERYTHING should be earned. If you're fastest, you deserve to be first- whether on the grid or in the race (barring cheating of course). I'm against anything that interferes with that basic premise.

I don't think there can possibly be a "perfect" qualifying system. We all want to see lots of action, so the cars need to be on the track together, and it would be great to mix things up a bit, but it has to make sense- and it should be relatively easy to understand.

In AUS, on the British SkyF1 coverage, Martin Brundle said that he spent practically all of quali glued to the timing and scoring screens, and that he doesn't recall watching a single lap in any session. Imagine the confusion of fans in the stands! We can't have a system that crazy...

You know- the system last year was pretty good... sure there were lulls in the action, but very often it came down to the last laps in Q3 that made the difference- drivers were running on the edge with no room for error on that last lap with low fuel and good tires. That was fun! That's what we need back!

You want to improve quali? Sure- but put that at the bottom of the list for now. Let's check off a few dozen items first, before we get to this!

-Ray
 
#17 ·
The problem with f1

Does anybody else feel one of the problems with f1 is that Alonso should have been killed? I mean I don't want to see him die but back in the day when the risk of death actually made the driving exciting he would have been finished. When you drive a car fast or watch someone drive a car fast part of the excitement is the fact that you can get killed. Its like jumping from a plane or the running of the bulls. Ever since Senna and Roland where killed F1 has deteriorated into a bunch or complaining pussies driving around (mostly) tracks that don't even separate the boys from the men. Remember the wonderful tracks of old. The originale imola, hockenheim, estoril, the original Barcelona. I could keep going but you get my point. These current drivers wouldn't last a season in the 70's. The would die or poo there pants so much they would go back to 80cc karting. When the gladiatorial element of watching motorsport or driving completely disappears then what is the point.

That felt good to get of my chest.
 
#21 ·
alfettaparts said:
When you drive a car fast or watch someone drive a car fast part of the excitement is the fact that you can get killed.
No. Absolutely don´t agree. Not one second this has ever been an intention when being at a race track. I´ve been in Zolder 1982. It was a tragedy, not a sensation.
 
#22 ·
Guys, I emphatically agree with hunttheshunt on this one. :surprise:

There is no way that F1 (or any sport) should become a blood sport. If you don't think that there's enough excitement in the sport, then maybe you should look elsewhere for entertainment.

Seeing great passes with man and machine on the edge is all the excitement I need (think Webber vs Alonso at Spa 2011)

I am extremely happy that the cars are as well built as they are, and especially happy that the tracks are so much safer than the days of yore.

Crashes will happen, and it's terrifying and exhilarating to see spectacular crashes, but I'm so relieved to see drivers walk away with few injuries- like Alonso in AUS, or Kubica in Montreal (initially, I thought both of those guys bought the farm...)

Like a lot of you guys, Gilles was my hero, and that pain is still with us all. Sorry guys- but it's just plain stupid to wonder if he would have wanted to grow old- I don't think anyone starts a family without intending to be around to see their children grow up.

You should ask Jackie Stewart if he's sorry he wasn't killed in the 70s.

Let's have good racing, and safe cars and tracks for everyone. As far as the halo, I think it's ugly as hell, and I would like to see a lot of testing- by entities outside of F1 that don't have a vested interest in the result as to their benefits and dangers. There may come a time when closed ****pits are mandatory, and if it happens, I won't like it, but I'll live with it.

My 2nd motorsport passion is sports cars- plenty of fun in closed ****pits there!

I remember reading Mario Andretti's autobiography many years ago. He lived near a sprint car dirt track after moving to the US as a kid. In the book, he mentioned the trend (in the 1950s!) to put roll hoops in sprint cars to protect drivers in rollovers. He didn't like them! He thought it ruined the looks of the cars and made the drivers "too brave"- i.e. not enough consequence in screwing up.

I hate to be on record being against Mario, but I'm not with him on this one.

I don't want to attend the premature funeral of a hero.

-Ray
 
#23 ·
I appreciate the opinion and not being completely **** canned for mine.
When I'm doing track days its part of the danger that makes it exciting for me so I accept the risk I can get killed. I don't want to be killed however that fact that I can be is part of the thrill of driving on the limit.
 
#26 ·
REALLY?(!)

That quote was the 'lead-off' to your argument...what followed wasn't much more 'mind-provoking', IMO.
Maybe you'd be better 'entertained' watching figure-eight racing & "Jackass"...

Regards

ps: I think this is the first time I've agreed w/'huntstheshunt'(sp?).
 
#29 ·
Can't we all just get along? It's Round 2!

OK guys,

I've been laying off commenting because it looks like some people just want to get involved in a flame war...

My suggestion, let's all declare victory and go home... 0:)

Round 2 is up this weekend, so lets get back to the topic of the thread.

Alonso is out for Bahrain- I was surprised to hear that he had a collapsed lung (at least partially) and fractured ribs, although based on the severity of the crash, I still think he came off well. I hope he's OK for China- he's still one of the best drivers on the grid- given a decent ride.

Vandoorne is in- let's see if he can pedal the McL any faster than his teammate.

BTW- what do you guys think of the Verstappen outbursts on the radio? Personally, I think he came off looking like a spoiled child (not surprising given the current role models in the paddock), and I think in a team that lets its' drivers race each other like STR, he should have done less whining and more attacking. If he can't pass his teammate through superior driving, the team shouldn't be giving him a free pass.

An interesting bit on ESPN by Jenny Gow- she says that lots of people go to the track in Bahrain, but few go to the grandstands- apparently the crowds are better entertained behind the grandstands, and that's why they look empty on TV! What does this say about the actual show that F1 is putting on track, and the spectators themselves?

I'm already on record as saying that F1 shouldn't be there (along with the US Navy!) considering their politics and human rights issues. If they're not putting fans in the stands, but collecting the ticket price for the show behind the grandstands (which I guess is just fine with the race promoter), is that the image F1 wants to promote?

Although I like Taylor Swift, I hope that the fans attending the Austin race come for more than a concert...

OK guys- let's hear it! Let Round 2 begin! :grin2:

-Ray
 
#31 · (Edited)
The Great Bahrain Quali Bore

Well, I had it recorded, so I watched it anyway. I hoped that maybe the new quali format would show some unexpected excitement this time.

I was disappointed to be disappointed. Again. :frown2:

I'm glad I didn't pay any hard earned money to be in the grandstands of Bahrain!

I hope the race is fun...

-Ray
 
#34 · (Edited)
Exactly. Second consecutive Top6 for Haas, again a superb result for this brand new team - why this fact is not advertised much more overall ?

Also: Again a very, very impressive race from Wehrlein in that really not very impressive Manor car (first opening race laps in Melbourne already were amazing) - that guy shows very similar talent like Verstappen in 2015 - but drives with much more brain and whines less than Max. Pascal´s set 6th fastest lap time in the race. In a Manor!

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/04/03/2016-bahrain-grand-prix-lap-times-and-fastest-laps/

Ferrari seems to have a serious engine issue. Kimi in Melbourne, now Seb in Bahrain - not very impressive when target´s still to beat the Silver cars.
 
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