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02-07-2007, 11:55 AM
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Great combination!
Now this is close to my heart, a great combo that'll really add "brio" to both motorsports (auto/moto)
http://en.dailymotos.com/noticia/8289
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'90 Quad (silver)
'97 Ducati 900SSSP
'84 Laverda RGS
'92 Jeep Cherokee for winter 
"If You ain't the Lead Dog, the Scenery never changes!"
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02-07-2007, 01:03 PM
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Great!
maybe alfa can learn a few things about marketing from ducati 
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Saluti
Marco
1983 GTV6
1983 Moto Guzzi LeMans III
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02-07-2007, 02:01 PM
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Hah! Maybe we could do without Ducati's "influence" in that dept., I think Ducati's diluted their heritage a bit with designer pens, shoes, luggage, and on & on.
Frank 
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'90 Quad (silver)
'97 Ducati 900SSSP
'84 Laverda RGS
'92 Jeep Cherokee for winter
"If You ain't the Lead Dog, the Scenery never changes!"
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02-07-2007, 02:30 PM
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Ducati did in the eighties what Alfa failed to do....to build on Technologically "old" designs (the twin two valve 90deg desmo) and turn it into a success story on the laurels of their racing victories. And while ducati in the early nineties sold the Monster, SuperSports and of course their Superbikes (888 and 916), Alfa Romeo buyers said goodbuy to the last of the rear wheel drives and all the historically significant technical solutions....
Now, has Ducati gone a Little "Harley" in their marketing? Sure!
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Saluti
Marco
1983 GTV6
1983 Moto Guzzi LeMans III
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02-07-2007, 04:24 PM
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoGtv6
Ducati did in the eighties what Alfa failed to do....to build on Technologically "old" designs (the twin two valve 90deg desmo) and turn it into a success story on the laurels of their racing victories. And while ducati in the early nineties sold the Monster, SuperSports and of course their Superbikes (888 and 916), Alfa Romeo buyers said goodbuy to the last of the rear wheel drives and all the historically significant technical solutions....
Now, has Ducati gone a Little "Harley" in their marketing? Sure!
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It's so frustrating that Ducati think they have to make twins, when we all know they can make a superb v4. That is what there production superbike should have, a 1000cc v4 ... not this Harley like 1200cc twin.
It's the philosophy of these firms that should not change, not physical things ... why can't Italian companies get this?. Ferrari is the only one that almost has got it ... and they continue to advance their engine technology all the time.
Pete
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02-08-2007, 06:59 AM
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Please not that rev forever Japanese nonsense. You should experience what twin cylinder torque is really about on a winding road and I am biased to V-twin and happen to own a Norton Commando.
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02-08-2007, 11:00 AM
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Enrico is right... Plus the twin allows the bike to be narrower and feel more nimble. And the sound of a Duc v-twin with carbon pipes is awesome!
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02-08-2007, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintn
Enrico is right... Plus the twin allows the bike to be narrower and feel more nimble. And the sound of a Duc v-twin with carbon pipes is awesome!
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Ducati could make 2 engines, air-cooled twin and a water-cooled v4 ...
Pete
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02-08-2007, 02:12 PM
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Why? What's the point? Ever heard the saying... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."?
They are consistantly wrapping up the WSB Championships due to the v-twin having great drivability through and out of low speed turns as well as having the hp at the high end of the rev counter.
And... A Duc with carbon pipes sounds nothing like a Harley... not that there is anything wrong with the sound of a well tuned Harley. IMHO |
02-08-2007, 02:28 PM
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I don't want to get into a bike thing inappropriately on the car boards, BUT
I think we will see a V4 Duc in my lifetime (I'm 51)
Ducati doesn't feel they *have* to build only a Vtwin, although they'll admit that the desmo system is still here in great part due to a "heritage" thing. It's hard to argue with success--the Ducs can run with anything most anywhere except Daytona with great performance.
When you speak with a rep from most any serious bike marque, they all want to follow Milwaukee's HUGE success in marketing "the Lifestyle" whatever that is because it generates huge revenues and exposure.
My hope is that the connection between Ducati & Alfa is a tasteful one that increases enthusiasm on both sides, and great iof they make a few lira in the process.
Frank
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'90 Quad (silver)
'97 Ducati 900SSSP
'84 Laverda RGS
'92 Jeep Cherokee for winter
"If You ain't the Lead Dog, the Scenery never changes!"
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02-08-2007, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprintn
Why? What's the point? Ever heard the saying... "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."?
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Ducati can only update the 4 valve twin for so long. Actually on this point they differ from Alfa Romeo in that they actually have revised it.
Anyway my point is Ducati is NOT just twins, it's about running an exotic race bike on the road. Harley is about twins, and I don't want Ducati to make that same mistake. Ducati can make and sell any engine configuration they want and the ONLY reason they win in the WSB championship is concessions to twins.
Soon they will be allowed 1200cc engines against 1000cc 4's   pathetic, and yeah understand the revibility of a 4 versus a twin, but the only people forcing Ducati to stick with twins is Ducati.
A v4 sounds great as does a 90 degree twin ... Ducati can and could build both to keep moving forward and everybody happy.
Pete
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02-08-2007, 04:47 PM
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> the ONLY reason they win in the WSB championship is concessions to twins
Yeh, we could go down that road, I hear it from every squid I meet that watches a little Speed Channel
In the Big Picture of moto-competetion, some kind of concessions have to exist to offset variables such as the resource$ of The Big Asian 4--it adds to the fun in a way. Most builders welcome the challenges brought on by the compromises (other than the financials). Ducati has come a long way on relatively little, a la Lotus, McLaren et al with auto construction--their machines speak well while frequently flying in the face of the opposition.
I think maybe they teach a course in this stuff in Italian engineering schools--it's an old story in moto and formuila racing. Mkaes for good racing generally.
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'90 Quad (silver)
'97 Ducati 900SSSP
'84 Laverda RGS
'92 Jeep Cherokee for winter
"If You ain't the Lead Dog, the Scenery never changes!"
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02-08-2007, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Franko
--it's an old story in moto and formuila racing. Mkaes for good racing generally.
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But facts are facts.
I hate contrived racing, but most racing series unfortunately are, but I also think twin owners need to be realistic and realise that they are winning because of the rules, not because the twin is the worlds best engine, heck even Ducati acknowledged this by building a v4 for MotoGP, where they would have got the @rse spanked if they had raced a twin. A much better series where engines have to be the same CC size. I do believe there are weight differences depending on the number of cylinders, which IMO is unnecessary ... there is a right formula, lets all learn it for the benefit of m/c technology!.
I am actually quite upset that the WSB racing has allowed or is going to allow Ducati to race a 1200, like just give the series to Ducati ... is somebody getting paid or something
In the end I, like you, want to see Ducati continue racing, variety is great, but lets not go around beating our chest about how awesome the twin cylinder engine is because it wins races ... it doesn't (but I give credit to Ducati for making a twin rev so hard and produce impressive power), the rules allow them to win. One has to give credit to the Japanese teams for even showing up. And yes I understand about how less power pulses of the twin helps the rear tyre grip, but like with the Ducati v4, and the Yamaha MotoGP bike there are ways to make a multi-cylinder engine help the rear tyre too, via big-bang firing orders, etc. I wonder if this techology will ever make it to the road?
And yes a Ducati twin sounds magical .
Pete
Last edited by PSk; 02-08-2007 at 05:17 PM.
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02-08-2007, 05:45 PM
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Pete, please understand I did not mean to label *you* as a squid, I was generalizing kinda quickly as I dodge work here a bit
Good posts, well said:
> I hate contrived racing, but most racing series unfortunately are <
> A much better series where engines have to be the same CC size<
I totally agree.
> lets not go around beating our chest about how awesome the twin cylinder engine is <
OK I won't, don't have to..I *could* go on about triples..best of all worlds..OK, back to Alfas;
Alfa will need all the help they can get in the US to get going again, let alone succeed. I think that having a link in sponsorships with Ducati will be good--Ducati (and TPG) took a page out of Harley's book a few years back and the marketing certainly seemed to pay off. When I was a kid, a Ducati was some kind of weird, loosely networked exotibike. After the typical Italian business angst cleared, new marketing strategies (like Mr. Donna Karan etc etc) got the marque in front of the monied, tragically-hip guys & gals that can make or break a name in public. All of a sudden everyone wants a Ducati. Overall, good for the continuation of the marque in many ways. I wouldn't mind this happening in the US to Alfa, long an underappreciated but thrilling car that few are even lightly familiar with.
Frank
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'90 Quad (silver)
'97 Ducati 900SSSP
'84 Laverda RGS
'92 Jeep Cherokee for winter
"If You ain't the Lead Dog, the Scenery never changes!"
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02-08-2007, 06:35 PM
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Yes Frank, agree Ducati is well known brand in America so linking to Alfa Romeo should help Alfa Romeo.
And yes love the sound of a triple ... and I'm hoping that my next bike will have a 90 degree twin ...
Pete |
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