FIA Homologation Papers for Alfa Models

[OldAlfaGuy]

I went to the Alfa Racing Group at Yahoo and retrieved the document numbers for some of the Alfa's that I find interesting, most of them ones were that raced heavily. This list represents probably less than 20% of all the Alfa's that have been homologated over the years. To see the complete list (It is the COMPLETE list of FIA homologation papers that includes ALL makes and models), go to Yahoogroups.com. In the search box, type in Alfa racing. That will take you to the site. Then you can join if you want. I think you may have to be a member to get to the files section that has the FIA file.

Document Number and Model
5440..... 1972 2000 GT Veloce
5497..... 1973 Alfetta (1779cc)
1565..... 1969 1750 GT Veloce
1576..... 1969 1750 GT Am
593..... GTA 1300 Junior
625..... GTA Sprint
199..... Giulia Sprint GTA
1267.... 1964 Giulia TI Super
1395.... Giulia Sprint GTA

A couple of notes:
1) The model name on the homlogation papers may be different from what you think is correct. Regardless, that is the way the Alfa Romeo named it when they submitted the homologation form to the FIA. As you can see, the GTA had a slightly different name from time to time. Alfa did that.

2) Some models have several different FIA homolgation papers. The Alfetta has probably 20 different homologation papers. I only pulled out one sample on the Alfetta to put on the above list. So if you want to know ALL of the homologated equipment for a particular model, you will need to go to the complete list and find ALL of the homologation papers that Alfa filed for it. I think I found all of the GTA, GTA Jr, and GTAm document numbers. That being said, I am a little surprised that there was only one homologation form filed for the GTA Jr. I would expect to see one filed at the time it was first released, and then at least one later on. I think the narrow angle head, slide throttle injection, and 13" Campy's were used on the GTA Jr after it had been raced for some time. That is the reason you will see different homologation papers for some models. As newer equipment was developed, it had to be homologated. I can tell from looking at the different FIA papers that sometimes Alfa would just take on old homologation paper and run it back through with the new piece of equipment added to it. Then other times, they would do a comletely new filing on the car, even giving it a different name. That is one of the reasons you will see slightly different names on FIA documents for the same car.

3) If you want to obtain copies of homologation documents from the FIA, I have detailed one approach under the 105-115 Coupe section of this BB.

OldAlfaGuy

[andyb6]

Thanks for the Information!

[Vitesse]

Andy
I found a copy of the old SCCA Recognition Form for the GTV at BSEDAN.com if that's of any help.

[MALDI]

Some GTV 6 homologation papers can be found here:

http://www.alfagtv6.com/FIA/fia.htm

[andyb6]

I am looking for these for Vintage racing. Here is the big mystery.... The FIA homologation papers for the 1750 GTV AND the 1750 GTAM are missing the second page which includes the weights. I don't have the papers in front of me, but the steel bodied 105 1600 is homologated at or below 2000lbs. The 1969 105 1750 GTV would presumably weigh within a few pounds of this since the car is still the 105 body and running gear. SCCA applied the 1.2 pounds per cc engine displacement and to hell with the "showroom" weights.

Many Vintage organizations will allow cars to be prepared to international standards as long as they can be documented. I am trying to sidestep the SCCA's imposed weight penalties of the 70's and race the car in a form that will maximize the smiles of all Alfa Vintage racers.

Thanks for your input

Andy

[Vitesse]

Andy
The GCR recognition form at Bsedan.com lists the minimum weight for the GTV w/1600cc at 1884lbs and the GTV 1750cc at 2135 lbs.

Ken

[andyb6]

Vitesse

Yes, SCCA made the GTV's run at those weights because they imposed a 1.2lb per cc penalty (1.2x1779cc=2135lb). Internationally, FIA homologation papers dictated weights based on what they weighed on the showroom floor and parts based on if they were factory options. I don't think adding 200cc engine volume and 2 headlights added 251lbs to the same 105 chassis. My car ran in the Bulova series in Canada from 1970 til the series ended. They appear to have followed FIA group 2 touring car rules with a weight around 1950lbs. I say appear because interestingly enough the FIA databases have 30+pages of homologation papers for the 1750 GTV and GTAM but have "misplaced" the weight pages for both. Also, I have found brochures for the Bulova series and talked to a few knowledgable people about the series but no one has documentation of their specific period rules. I have my car to nearly exactly as it ran in the series but it weighs 1930lbs. VSCDA will allow it to run at this weight if I can document it being "Period Correct" for the car and series, otherwise I must prepare the car to SCCA period specs and make it weigh 2135. (That would be like strapping my wife and 5 year old in to go racing with me!)

A side note to this. The GTAm was simply a 1969 1750 american spec GTV altered with lots of trick parts from the performance parts catalog. The GTam never raced in the US because it had no series to race in. With Vintage racing allowing cars prepared to rules all over the world, we could have an opportunity to build a GTAM and race it wheel to wheel if we could only document the constraints it ran under. (You hear me Erik? drop in a modern ts with a modified cam cover to look like the GTAm cover get 250hp and drop the weight to around 1900lbs.)

Andy

[genericwood]

I hear you Andy, and I fully support your efforts. My earlier comments were only meant to point out that being able to run the car with a twinspark and less weight doesn't mean that you will be classed with the cars that are running the old SCCA B-Sedan rules. Same group most likely, but different class. It's kind of like the the MGB GT V8's and Lotus Elans we often run with. We are the track together, but we aren't really competing.

I hope you get VSCDA to change their minds on the weight issue, either through common sense or a loophole. I'll just keeping running the SVRA events, since I don't race that much anyway. Now what I would really like to see the vintage groups do, is way the driver with the car. I know it wasn't that way "back in the day". But if you are going to impose an arbitrary 1.2 lbs/cc rule, it really should be based on total weight. Then again, I outweigh you by probably a hundred pounds!

I can't wait for the spring thaw and racing to begin!

Erik

[dretceterini]

Have you tried contacting the ACI/CSAI office directly? They were the Italian liaison to the FIA, and may have copies of the homoligaited weight papers on the 1750GTV for the various FIA Groups....

Link to contact page:

http://www.csai.aci.it/csai/contatti.jsp

[andyb6]

dretceterini

I have not tried them yet thanks!

Erik

I won't be racing VSCDA this year either.....maybe they will get the message.

[Vitesse]

Andy
check out this FIA link for minimum weights in Tourng Cars Group 2
http://www.fia.com/resources/documen..._Art_260_a.pdf
It contains a statement at the end of the table shown that says "In no case the scrutineers may take the weights figuring on the recognition forms into consideration." And your 2 liter correlates to 845kg = 1859 lbs.
Can this be what you're looking for?
Ken

[andyb6]

Ken

YOU ARE MY FREAKIN' HERO! I didn't realize who you were until this last post...I finally put the number with the car and owner.

Best
Andy

[han]

the homelegation wieght for a 1750 gtam is for 1970,

920 kg 2030.5lbs

in 1971 there was added 20 kg

so 940 kg

[andyb6]

Thanks Ken for the link to the FIA Historical info. I had searched the site with no luck. It seams the words I used in my searches never worked with their search engine, but having the link to one page allowed me to figure out how to get to the rest. So much for being clueless.

I have not read everything in detail from Historical Appendix J which seems to be the complete rules from 1961, 1966, 1969, 1970 etc., but skimming it does appear that the weights DID NOT FOLLOW homologation weights but engine size. The rule for the weight also was "As the car would cross the finish line" so I think this would even include the driver. Other rules of note allowed for the changing of brakes as long as the friction area stayed the same.

The FIA Group 2 rules seem to parallel SVRA's rules almost perfectly.

Time will tell how VSCDA responds.

ERIK ....845kg with a driver!

[dretceterini]

I assume the cars in the higher numbered FIA groups could weigh even less....