Formula 1 2007

[slam105]

Now I can't wait for the '08 Season to start! If Alonso can bring the Championship back to Renault, McLaren is going to look like a bunch of 'chumps'! I hear Renault is paying Alonso 30 MILLION EUROS a season(?)!

Regards

[Alex Csank]

Interesting! It is shaping up to be another very weird F1 season, n'est pas?

[Bill-Sims]

Certainement!

[charley]

I hope that all those who accused the FIA of a witch hunt over the Mclaren spying affair take note of Mclarens full apology ( see below)and their acceptance that the information was more widely distributed throughout their organisation than they had previously stated. One piece of info that I would love to know,is the identity of the senior management person who was fully in the know and instructed the team to stop work on Ferrari derived systems when their cover was blown.
Charley

Mr Max Mosley and Members of the World Motor Sport Council
President
Federation Internationale de L'Automobile
7 Boulevard de Moulins
MC9800
Monaco

05 December 2007

Private & Confidential

Dear Mr Mosley and Members of the World Motor Sport Council,

We have very recently received a copy of the report by the FIA Technical Department, to the World Motor Sport Council pursuant to its 13th September 2007 decision. In the light of this report and its conclusions we felt that it was appropriate to write directly to you to express our sincere regret in regard to some of the matters that had been brought to light.

Whilst with great respect to the authors of the report, we do not agree with all of the conclusions that have been drawn following this most impressively thorough and daunting investigation into the engineering processes of McLaren Racing, we accept the central conclusion that some pieces of Ferrari information may have been disclosed via Nigel Stepney and Mike Coughlan, directly or indirectly to individuals within McLaren other than Pedro de la Rosa and Fernando Alonso.

It is a matter of deep regret for us that our understanding of the facts has improved as a result of the FIA inspection rather than our own prior investigations. We apologise unreservedly if our prior ignorance of some of these facts has misled the World Motor Sport Council and we can only assure you all that this was never our intention.

We must nonetheless accept that our own investigations into this matter were insufficient, although we would ask you to have regard to the fact that such investigations were conducted during a highly intense racing season and under significant time pressure. As a result, our investigations focused most strongly on satisfying ourselves that no Ferrari confidential information had been used directly or indirectly on the 2007 and 2008 cars.

The FIA investigation was extremely exhaustive, comprehensive and we trust that it is apparent, as is acknowledged in the report, that McLaren co-operated fully and speedily with all requests made by the investigating team. We also believe that the investigators found no evidence of concealment or data cleansing as they reviewed the comprehensive materials supplied.

To put this investigation into context, the investigating team interviewed 20 key engineers, accessed 22 personal computers belonging to key members of the organisation and retrieved by computer search 1.4 Tera Bytes of data stored on the central computer systems of McLaren Racing (this latter data is equivalent to approximately 75 million sheets of A4 typed information).

We would respectfully suggest, however, that despite our embarrassment that pieces of Ferrari information may have penetrated our organisation beyond our previous belief, the inspection has not reached any conclusion that McLaren used Ferrari confidential information on the 2007 or 2008 car (subject to issues as to the deployment quickshift, fast fill or CO2 as a tyre gas for 2008, in respect of which see below).

We do, however, accept that the inspection provides some support for the conclusion that is set out in paragraph 8.11 of the WMSC's decision of 13 September 2007. In particular that "a number of McLaren employees... were in unauthorised possession of ... Ferrari technical information" for which we have been most severely punished. However, it does not establish that the information in question was used on the 2007 or 2008 cars.

We understand that the World Motor Sport Council does not have time to receive a full hearing in regard to this matter during its meeting on 7th December. However, we are aware that the Council will make a procedural decision to determine how this matter is now addressed and taken forward.

In this regard, we can only seek to provide the Council with the briefest understanding of the impact of this matter upon our team and respectfully request that the Council appreciates these facts and determines a process which is proportionate to the seriousness of the case, taking into account the penalties that have already been inflicted upon the team.

We respectfully request that the members of the Council consider the significant disruption that has occurred within the team as a consequence of this matter. Whilst McLaren has a strong partnership with Mercedes-Benz, which supplies its engines, it is still an independent team which is responsible for the generation of the majority of its own budget for the design and development of the chassis and the subsequent operation of the cars.

Therefore, apart from the morale sapping consequence within the team, its ability to continue its task of generating investment has, as I am sure anyone can imagine, been made virtually impossible.

Consequently, the long term damage to the team's previously outstanding record and commercial capability is significantly greater than that potentially envisaged by the fiscal penalty that was previously imposed upon the team.

We would respectfully ask that in the light of this and the fact that it is reasonable to assume now that all of the damaging facts have been presented, that it may be appropriate and also incidentally in the interests of Formula One generally, to bring an urgent conclusion to this affair.

Toward that end we would like to express our willingness, despite not agreeing with the findings, to enter into discussion with the FIA Technical Department as to a moratorium of an appropriate length in respect of the use of quickshift, fast fill or CO2 as a tyre gas.

We trust that the seriousness with which we regard this matter is apparent from this letter and that it gives you confidence that we will do everything in our power to avoid any repetition of these events. We have reflected on these matters carefully and critically and in particular on the comments made by the FIA President, Max Mosley, to the effect that had we contacted Jean Todt as soon as we were aware of the "whistleblowing" information coming from Stepney these matters could all have been avoided.

Moving forward, we would like to reassure the Council that we have put in place procedures to prevent further recurrences of such conduct and would like to offer to the FIA if this of interest to open a dialogue whereby McLaren would make every effort to try and improve its relationship with the FIA.

We apologise wholeheartedly once more that it has taken the intervention of the FIA and a time consuming process to expose all of the facts emanating from this matter, but we hope that when the Council members have had time to consider the circumstances surrounding this case and the pressures that have been placed upon McLaren during our investigations, that our lapses in this respect are at least partially excusable.

We remain at your convenience if we can further assist your deliberations in respect of this matter.

Yours sincerely,

Martin Whitmarsh
Chief Operating Officer, McLaren Group

[1,6 HF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by charley I hope that all those who accused the FIA of a witch hunt over the Mclaren spying affair take note of Mclarens full apology ( see below)and their acceptance that the information was more widely distributed throughout their organisation than they had previously stated. One piece of info that I would love to know,is the identity of the senior management person who was fully in the know and instructed the team to stop work on Ferrari derived systems when their cover was blown.

[charley]

For info re senior managemen being in the know see below from Autosport..

FIA: McLaren planned to use Ferrari data

By Jonathan Noble Thursday, December 13th 2007, 18:50 GMT


McLaren were poised to use systems on their 2008 car that had been inspired by secret Ferrari information given to them by Nigel Stepney, the FIA's technical report on the matter reveals.

Having conducted a detailed examination of the design of McLaren's 2008 car, to see if any Ferrari intellectual property had been used, the FIA report published on Thursday claims that there was evidence of such activity.

Although what the specific parts and systems are have not been revealed, to keep McLaren's own technical secrets confidential, the report is adamant that some elements of the MP4-23 design was scheduled to include technology inspired by confidential Ferrari information.

The report states: "The [redacted - confidential] system appears to have been re-investigated and developed by McLaren as a result of the receipt of confidential Ferrari information.

"Despite senior McLaren management imposing a hiatus on development at the time the (Mike) Coughlan activities were revealed, McLaren now intend to use [redcated - confidential] on the 2008 car."

It added: "The [redacted - confidential] mechanism which McLaren has developed since the 3 May 2007 Coughlan meeting is intended to be used on the 2008 car and appears to have been initiated by the receipt of confidential Ferrari information."

Detailed examination of the report shows that one area where McLaren had appeared to utilise the Ferrari information was in the creation of a new brake balance system.

The report states: "It appears on the basis of these documents that the genesis of the idea to incorporate a [redacted - confidential] on the McLaren 2008 car emanated from the emails exchanged on 12 April 2007 concerning Ferrari's [redacted – confidential] system and the meeting called on 3 May 2007 by Coughlan. We have not been presented with a convincing explanation to displace the impression given by the documents."

The report also states that McLaren were ready to consider the use of CO2 gas in their tyres, as Ferrari do. It is believed 'more likely than not' that the idea came to the team from information given by Nigel Stepney.

The report states: "We believe the general investigation by McLaren of the use of [redcated – confidential] established further dissemination of confident Ferrari information to engineers within McLaren which has influenced their work on the 2007 and 2008 cars."

The FIA document also reveals that engineers within the team were aware of a Ferrari 'mole' passing information to them.

One email exchange between engineers on April 13, 2007 discussing steering angles mentioned an exact figure for the Ferrari wheelbase. A response from a senior McLaren engineer was: "Is the Ferrari wheelbase an accurate figure? Did it come from photos or our mole?"

The response was: "You will find it's to the nearest 'mm'."

The report states: "On a natural reading of this exchange and taking into account the suggested explanations for it, we have concluded that both [Senior McLaren Engineer] and [Senior McLaren Engineer] were aware that confidential Ferrari information was being leaked through a mole and were prepared to use that information for McLaren's benefit in the design of the 2007 and 2008 cars."

The report reveals that McLaren indeed decided to follow Ferrari's example and increase the wheelbase of their car for 2008, although it could not prove whether this was because of the secret Ferrari information or because of information that was readily available and in the public domain.

McLaren have apologised to the FIA for not being aware of just how far the Ferrari information obtained by the team had spread within their organisation, and the report reveals that even a 'Senior McLaren management figure' was aware of what was going on.

It states the unidentified senior McLaren management figure advised the team to abandon work on a secret technical development because of the spy case surrounding the team.

The report states that on August 8, a senior McLaren engineer communicated a decision reached by a senior McLaren management figure to junior staff members that they were to abandon their efforts on the development

"I would not change the [redacted – confidential] direction until we have to, i.e., when we eventually run the [redacted – confidential]. We will obviously ask for this again for Turkey but I'm not hopeful that we will run this until the outstanding FIA agro [sic] is resolved."

McLaren have vowed to cease development work on the parts that could have been inspired by Ferrari knowledge, and the FIA stated on Thursday night that it was now willing to bring the matter to a close.

[1,6 HF]

I had read that; the FIA report says things like "On a natural reading of this exchange and taking into account the suggested explanations for it, we have concluded..."

But McLaren still disputes that there's any 'Ferrari-derived technology' on their 2008 car. They just want to get beyond this so the FIA get off their back, as their statement says:
"Toward that end [quick resolution] we would like to express our willingness, despite not agreeing with the findings, to enter into discussion with the FIA Technical Department as to a moratorium of an appropriate length in respect of the use of quickshift, fast fill or CO2 as a tyre gas."

[Sprintn]

on another note... I really think it is a mistake for Bernie, Max, or any one else to do too much to hurt Mclaren or anything that might cause Ron Dennis to be pushed out of F1. THink about it... what is F1 without Ron Dennis or a crippled Mclaren Team? That would be like losing Frank Williams... Formula 1 will be forever changed and its links to its past would be severed... aside from Ferrari. I don't think this is good for F1 and the powers that be should consider this. It would not even be a show any more. Just a couple of red cars out there with a string non competative overspending, or underspending, factory teams a couple laps behind... kind of like the US GP a few years ago. Try to imagine a race like that... every race

[davidteachey]

A few notes-to-all:

1) Spygate blah blah blah blah......MOVE ON, ADULT PEOPLE!!!

2) You heard it here first: Msr Bourdais will be the 2008 "Spanner In The Works"...not WDC, not "the next Lewis Hamilton", not necessarily even a winner, but definitely a SITW......too bad he's "only with STR".......the boy will be a spoiler, though, mark my words.

3) BMW-Sauber......Come on the lads!! PLEASE let this be the year that Quick Nick and/or Air Missile Kubica are in the WDC running (just for the sheer entertainment of it!).

4) In '08, I'd love to see it go down to Massa vs Lewie vs A BMW Driver for the drivers championship (perhaps over the last 4 races or so).

5) This is the best F1 forum I've ever come across...it's WAY better than the actual "F1 forum" sites out there!.....lets keep this dialog up in '08, ok?

6) Finally, let's end this thread in just over a week's time, and start the new one, "Formula 1 2008" (I'll bet we can all agree on that).


Merry ChristmaHanaKwanzaaKuh to all of you, my opinionated friends...Best wishes to ALL of you for a great 2008! Cheers,


David