11-14-2006, 12:50 AM
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Champ Car Rules!
Who saw that race yesterday! An epic battle coming down to the final lap!  What an ending to the Lola era! What a race! What a season!
F1 could never come close to doing what the Champ Cars did in Mexico City yesterday.
Last edited by Hit an Apex; 11-14-2006 at 12:53 AM.
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11-14-2006, 06:18 AM
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Motor City
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Hit an Apex...........well Sebastian hit one of them HARD to win the race!
But I don't totally agree with you......there has been great racing this year in F1. Michael had a great race in Brazil coming from the back.
I don't know on what race but Kimmi-Alonso-Montoya overtaking or being overtaken by Michael........THAT IS ALSO GOOD RACING.
I really like CART, BUT that does not make all of the other open wheel series bad.
And just for the record, seeing in person Airton Senna overtake someone (I forgot) on the out side of the "Peraltada" coming in with NO chicane - beats Michael-Sebastian-Paul-and whomever you want to add together for a pass.
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11-14-2006, 08:36 AM
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Fangio vs. Ferrari boys - Nurburgring 1957.
John Surtees vs. G. Hill - Monza 1967.
Final lap battle Monza - 1970.
Villeneuve vs. Arnoux - Dijon 1979.
Senna vs. Mansell - Monaco 1992.
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11-14-2006, 08:41 AM
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by DOF_PorscheBMW
Fangio vs. Ferrari boys - Nurburgring 1957.
John Surtees vs. G. Hill - Monza 1967.
Final lap battle Monza - 1970.
Villeneuve vs. Arnoux - Dijon 1979.
Senna vs. Mansell - Monaco 1992.
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If you missed Mexico City check out the highlight reel,
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11-14-2006, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hit an Apex
And Champ Car has these pretty much every race.
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For starters, the first three I've mentioned were in the slipstreaming (and drifting) era of Formula 1, before downforce kicked in.
Champ car now is about downforce, and that means, that like Formula 1 those fantastic overtakings are not possible these days.
Second, wheel to wheel contact and some of those Champ Car accidents/incidents would have been avoided by the pre-70s pilots because there were potentially fatal.
The best period of Champ Car was the Mansell vs. Fitipaldi period.
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11-14-2006, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOF_PorscheBMW
Imposible.
For starters, the first three I've mentioned were in the slipstreaming (and drifting) era of Formula 1, before downforce kicked in.
Champ car now is about downforce, and that means, that like Formula 1 those fantastic overtakings are not possible these days.
Second, wheel to wheel contact and some of those Champ Car accidents/incidents would have been avoided by the pre-70s pilots because there were potentially fatal.
The best period of Champ Car was the Mansell vs. Fitipaldi period.
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The facts are that Champ Car has exciting racing that produces ON TRACK passing for the lead. You guys can barely name the last time there was an on-track pass for the lead in F1.
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11-14-2006, 02:26 PM
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Hitanapex, who's that band?
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11-14-2006, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit an Apex
I don't know what you're smoking but the last 3 Champ Car races have been decided by an on-track pass (or attempted one..) in the closing stages. Then you go back to Denver, when there was a ton of passing, before that? Edmonton, check. Toronto? check. San Jose? check. Cleveland? doublecheck. Portland? check.
The facts are that Champ Car has exciting racing that produces ON TRACK passing for the lead. You guys can barely name the last time there was an on-track pass for the lead in F1.
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I don't smoke.
The slipstreaming passes of the "golden days" of F1 won't be seen in Champ Car. I've explained why.
On track pass for the lead doesn't equall slipstreaming passes like say Monza '67 and '70. So that means you don't get those golden passing every Champ car day like you claimed.
And we did have interesting races. China, Turkey (fantastic Alonso vs. Schumi duel) and Hungaroring (need I say more).
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11-14-2006, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfettish
Hitanapex, who's that band?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DOF_PorscheBMW
I don't smoke.
The slipstreaming passes of the "golden days" of F1 won't be seen in Champ Car. I've explained why.
On track pass for the lead doesn't equall slipstreaming passes like say Monza '67 and '70. So that means you don't get those golden passing every Champ car day like you claimed.
And we did have interesting races. China, Turkey (fantastic Alonso vs. Schumi duel) and Hungaroring (need I say more).
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Did you watch the Champ Car race from Mexico City, or from Road America this year? Doesn't look like it. There was plenty of slipstreaming. Look at the closing distance of Justin Wilson as he flew by Bourdais for the lead before the first round of stops. A good portion of that was the slipstream.
Remember, Champ Cars are aerodynamically designed to bring the car behind along as well, unlike Formula 1. How was Wilson able to save another lap of fuel by staying behind but very close to Bourdais? Slip streaming is part of it.
China, Turkey, Hungary... I don't think there were passes for the lead on track?
Last edited by Hit an Apex; 11-14-2006 at 03:14 PM.
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11-14-2006, 03:50 PM
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Why I don't make time to watch CART anymore? City racing.
Watching these guys drive down concrete canyons just does not appeal to me anymore, and I've always liked watching CART.
With no room for mistakes, aggressive passes tend to lead to damage, or idiotic moves (see paul Tracy...).
HBA- do you own shares in CART??? I don't know anyone else who is so "for" a specific series so much... 
I've had enough of CART. At least until they go back to real road racing, and not these silly street races. Think of the passing if they didn't have walls to worry about!!!
Eric
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11-14-2006, 03:54 PM
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Motor City
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Hit an Apex,
My point (and I think other's as well) is that CART is NOT the ONLY open wheel series that has exiting moments out there. – Not that you have stated this, but that is the impression that I get -
Indy 500 with Danica  this year was GREAT! Seeing Marco Andretti drive an outstanding race at Watkins Glen was also superb!
Several F1 moments! 
More than I can count or remember NASCAR passes, spins, bumps, grinds, flips etc.. 
A1GP had several good moments, American Lemans, Grand-Am, and many others as well.
CART is in a SLUMP! I don’t like it but it is! Several races with only 17 cars when I thought they would always had a minimum of 18! The time difference between first and last is very big compared to other years. Although there are still several top of the line veteran teams and some new good teams out there, other top teams have left for IRL – I don’t like it but that is the reality. For me, this makes it not as good as before. Even with all this, CART did have great events this year, with lots of acton..........if not ask Katherine.
I am work right now (and should not be typing this) but I will attach a GREAT F1 video when I get home – just what DOF_PorscheBMW (by the way were is the Alfa there??? ) was talking about. 
HERE IT IS:
May I respectfully ask: Do you have a close relation or asociation with CART? You give that impresion sometimes.
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Eliseo Carrillo
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Last edited by ECARRILLO; 11-14-2006 at 05:18 PM.
Reason: ADDED VIDEO
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11-14-2006, 04:35 PM
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He's sick in the head, is all.
But when ChampCar debuts the Panoz DP01 chassis next season, we can hopefully get back to some of that ultra-close slipstream racing a la GP2.
The Panoz relies on the underbody to create more of the car's downforce, rather than the front and rear wings. This creates less turbulence behind the cars and doesn't result in a total loss of downforce if one car is following another car closely.
It looks like ChampCar will have 22 of those on the grid at the season opener in Las Vegas next year. I've got good feelings for next season.
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11-15-2006, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbolarespider
Why I don't make time to watch CART anymore? City racing.
Watching these guys drive down concrete canyons just does not appeal to me anymore, and I've always liked watching CART.
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I've had enough of CART. At least until they go back to real road racing, and not these silly street races. Think of the passing if they didn't have walls to worry about!!!
Eric
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In the USA, Champ Car should stick with Laguna Seca (bring it back) and Road America (will it stil be in 2007 season ?!).
To become a truly global series IMO, in Europe they should go to Monaco, Nürburgring (Nordschleife) and Spa.
I would really love to see what these Champ cars boys do in the Eau Rouge or Rascasse.
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11-15-2006, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ECARRILLO
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11-15-2006, 07:48 AM
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