Bolt In Roll Bar Pic's

[msiert]

Well I finially got a bolt in roll bar.The design idea's came from "Little Italian" and "60'sRacer" but I added an extra set of rear legs. The main hoop base plates are over the trailing arm's mounting points (The S-4 does not have a false shelf like the earilier Spiders so should help in adding stiffness to the chassis) along with the petty bar. I also contacted Russ Neely on the requirements and had the AROC Competion Code copied for the fabricator to make sure it was right. The bar will also let me on my local track which requires the hardtop on along with a roll bar that passes the broom stick test.

It's powered coated, has a diagonal bar, curved harness bar behind the driver’s seat with a straight harness bar behind the passenger seat, four rear bars mount to 2 points on the back wall and I did a removable petty bar that mounts to the top of the passager side sill (at the front of the door) and the center of the hoop. The weight of the Bar is 52.4 lbs. not including the petty bar which is about 5 lbs.

I also got a pair of Sparco seats and 5 point harness's. I had to replace the drivers side thick padded seat base of the Sparco "Speed" seat with a thin one and have a custom tubular seat rail made up for the drivers seat to get the leg room I needed and stay below the top of the bar. I will pass the broom stick test and I am not sliding down in the seat to do it (I am 6'-0" with most of my height in my legs). Plus the soft top goes over it and the hardtop too (gutted hardtop).

[Green Dragon]

Murray,

Thanks so much for the pics. I have been trying to figure out how to get my spider on the track at Infineon and the roll bar is the big issue. Your setup looks really well triangulated. The autopower setup will not work for me. May I ask the cost of the bar?

When you say broomstick test, is that measuring a broomstick between helmet and bar? How difficult/complicated was the seat install? Is that a OEM or aftermarket hardtop? Sorry for all the quetions but you piqued my curiousity as I have been trying to get my S3 spider on the track and I have been following your project with great interest.

Seems your project is coming along nicely, can't wait to hear how she runs/stops, etc. Is he all together now?

Thanks again.

[Green Dragon]

Murray,
Thanks for the detailed reply. $3800 Yikes! But it brings to mind two phrases, "You get what you pay for" and "cheap might get you speed or it might get you reliable but it won't get you both".

Looks quality all the way. Your whole project seems to be a "no corners cut" sort of proposition...maybe what attracts me so much to it.

Looking forward to more pics of the seat rails. I have spent plenty of time under my spider and never noticed how much deeper the passenger side seat pan is until you pointed it out. See, I just keep learning by following your project and it seems like you have some good "mentors" in this area.

Thanks for your patience with all of my questions.

[Zunige]

Hi, Murray:

Your roll bar looks great - congrats! The cost is miniscule compared to the safety and fine workmanship. It's an approach that I would take, as well.

I've been watching your project with keen interest, since I have a '84 spider that has some nice upgrades: 10:1 pistons, Sperry Stage V head, 12 mm C&B cams, headers, oil cooler (in the correct factory position), windage tray, engine cooling plate, trap door in the oil pan, lightened flywheel, RML ignition, Ward and Deane springs, upper adjustable control arms, chassis stiffener, slotted cross drilled rotors, steel braided brake lines, and all ployurethane, including the motor mounts. (ECU and AFM are next.) As you can see, I would love to be able to put her on the track, so I have a goal to be able to have a roll bar installed in time for the 2007 Alfa Convention in Detroit.

I've been looking at bar designs for over a year, and I've been working on a double hoop idea that allows the convertible top to go over it, the stock seat to travel all the way back and recline, and exceeds the minimum safety standards. It's not an original idea, since all of this has already been by Boss Frog, for Miatas. In fact, I contacted Boss Frog and offered to leave the car with them until they could come up with a design and install it, but the owner was afraid to work on a concours car. He said his guys were carpenters, and what I needed was a cabinet maker, and he wouldn't be able to sleep worrying that the car would get scratched. (My '84 placed second at the Tulsa Convention in the spider category, and I do intend to keep it pristine and original-looking.)

Anyway, I am interested in the mounting points you selected, and how easy it would be to install and remove the bar, although I have the feeling that once it goes in, it would probably stay in... Do you have specs or diagrams showing the location of the mounting points? I'm hoping that they would also work for a S3 spider.

Best regards,

[Zunige]

Hi Murray,

An alfisti friend and AROC member is interested in taking on the fabrication of the bar. He is a design engineer and does work for an aircraft engines manufacturer and although we are both always pressed for time, this is a cool project that I think we’ll make time for… (I’m not sure I would be able to dedicate the attention that a fabrication shop would require to keep the project moving. My upgrades have taken years to implement!)

You’re right about the seat position, and figuring out the compromises. I believe I will be fine with the seating position, since I never go farther back with the seat than the next to the last locking position – and that’s with sheepskins installed. (I’m 5’ 10”.) As far as your seating position and the lack of room for your right leg, this is not an uncommon problem for long legs in spiders. I would see if changing the accelerator pedal position gives you more room. (See alfafredly suggestion in the “heel & toe pedal kits” thread.) I would hold off on pursuing different seating arrangements until all pedal adjustments possibilities have been exhausted. This would not just keep expenses down, but swapping stuff in and out of the car could get old quickly…

You’ve also mentioned that it is a good idea to keep the bar as far forward as possible on the rear deck. That’s exactly what I intend to do. The design I’m working on is probably going to result in a heavier set-up (more bar segments), but that is part of compromising, since I want to be able to recline the seats. My car however, despite all the upgrades, is still going to be a street car – it is by all accounts a heavy car, with all the normal street comforts. It will probably only go on the track once a year, at the Alfa Convention time trials. My goal is to have a car that is fun to drive and autocross, good enough to show, and safe to put on a track, but as long as it retains its street comforts it will always do better in a concours, rather than at the autocross or track…

Your bar looks good, and is the only one I know of that complies with the safety standards and allows the top to go up. Once you have the pictures with it installed in the car, you may have people interested in a similar one, and you may want to consider having it fabricated for them. This could help offset the cost of the original design.

I’ll be looking forward towards the pictures of your completed project, and when(ever!) I get my roll bar going, I’ll also post pictures.

Best regards,
Enrique

[Green Dragon]

Murray
we all coud benefit form a thread where you tie all this awesome work together.. I try to keep track of it all but it sure keeps me bouncing around in the forums. I just think alot of folks would really appreciate it...maybe you will consider it when you finish

[Green Dragon]

Murray,
I think the two who might call it boasting would just be jealous and the other thousand of us would stand around nudging eachother saying stuff like "you see the quality of those welds? or "that is just plain hot, reminds me of a girl I knew in college". We'd probably look at the guy who made the second comment and reply, "yeah, the only girl you knew that was this hot was on a poster on your dorm room wall."

Speling, who cares about spellin? Consider us like guys in your driveway who have driven from all over to see your pride and joy.

Personally I consider it a generous spreading of information regarding what is possible with these spiders.

Anyways, I DO appreciate every tidbit you give us. THANKS