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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2006, 06:36 PM
larry larry is offline
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Nizam is exactly correct it is a relative situation just as a huge swaybar installed in the front usually dictates a bigger one in the rear to maintain balance so you don't end up just understeering. That is the slippery slope of any modification. Make the car faster with a T-spark and maybe we need better brakes, etc. etc.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2006, 07:02 PM
bianchi1 bianchi1 is offline
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larry???

sway bar? i thought i was asking about brake bias. thanks
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2006, 09:03 PM
60sRacer 60sRacer is offline
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Rear brake balance is really important is slippery road conditions, or for best entry and exit speed on any track. When I upgraded my brakes with newer alfa parts (late spindles, etc.) and better pads, I added a rear brake limit valve that is adjustable, and accessible inside the car. With a little experience and some experimenting, i have found the settings that work well in various conditions.

For racing, I found that the fuel use (weight reduction way in the back!), tire heating, and varying track conditions made this a useful in-race adjustment. I know that all-out racers that use dual MC's (seperate front and rear circuits) with an adjustable balance bar do even better than the adjustable rear limit valves.

Larry: are you considering similar kits for rear brakes?

Robert
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2006, 10:10 PM
larry larry is offline
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Rear vented rotors is tempting for my Montreal, rear stock vented rotors are OK now, but when they need to be replaced then I will build something, That car was the whole reason to build the front setup, my fronts were shot and I wanted better stopping, 2850 lbs. with those same basic 115 front calipers, scary to drive fast.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2006, 07:24 PM
tucco tucco is offline
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Red face

Larry, iam trying to locate my own source to get setup like this. Its little too expensive for me so iam trying to get everything separately. Already found calipers and pads, and now for the rotors and hats. Could you please tell me who is the manufacturer? Wilwood have rotors that might work. but they dont have the correct hats, only undrilled but the offset i believe its too small. So please more info will help.
Thank you
peter
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2006, 04:59 PM
60sRacer 60sRacer is offline
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Murray,

Maybe not old dogs, but old goats learn every day. Twice on many days! Besides, I've known Larry for many years, and if he says it works well, I'll buy!



Robert
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2006, 06:52 AM
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Dr.G Dr.G is offline
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69 Alfa's have dual circuits

What is an adjustable balance bar?

How do you know you have your brake bias adjusted correctly until you are in wet slippery conditions? Do you take your car out to the shopping mall on a wet day, early Sunday morning, and make repeated stops in the puddles to see if you spin out (and have the security guys chase you)?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2006, 07:40 AM
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gowest gowest is offline
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I just finished my Mazda brake conversion and wonder about F/R brake bias adjust.

After going through this informative tread I have some question. Where is the rear brake pressure regulator located (70 gtv)and should I remove it?
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Last edited by gowest; 07-16-2006 at 07:42 PM.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2006, 10:40 AM
60sRacer 60sRacer is offline
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Adjustable brake balance bars are mechanical devices that allow you to control two seperate master cylinders for the front and rear brakes, with the mechanical leverage between the two adjustable. Often the adjustment is a hand wheel operable from inside the race car. Here's one from the most famous of brake and racing stuff, www.tiltonracing.com:

http://www.tiltonracing.com/content....ist2&id=42&m=b

Be sure to look at the proportioning valves too. I replaced my alfa rear valve with a lever adjustable tilton valve. The balance bar was too much modification for a street car, so the proportion valve was the next best chioce.

To know how to adjust the rear balance: for a street car driven by a normal driver, the key is to prevent rear wheel lock up in an emergency stop - this will give you the best straight line stopping, and allow a little steering control during a panic stop (also, this is the mode all factory limit setups are done). So find an empty strech of straight road and do some brake tests. If the rear wheels skid from about 40 mph+, reduce the rear pressure limit until you can stop with all four wheels rolling except maybe right at the last few feet.

For race cars, the proceedure and purpose is completely different. Here the goal is to keep the car 'balanced' on hard braking in entry to a turn. Different courses have different kinds of turns and entrys, so the set up varies day by day. In addition, the car's balance changes as the 100 pounds of fuel at the rear is used up. Hence the in-car, in-race adjustments.

For a racer, the balance bar is more important - you do not want to be limiting brake force anywhere! Laps are won and cars are passed by braking at the limit deeper into the corner then him!

As Larry pointed out, the front brakes are the most important for a street car; they absorb 85-95% of the stopping energy in a straight emergency stop. All the rear brakes need to do is keep the tail lights behind the driver. On the track, you never actually want to stop - you want to brake for a turn as late as possible and as hard as possible (that allows you to be late braking) into a turn, and accelerate as hard as possible as soon as possible going out, all while keeping the headlights and tail lights facing the right way and the wheels on the paved part.

Robert
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2006, 11:22 AM
tucco tucco is offline
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brake kit

Larry, could you tell me who manufactured the hats and rotors, possibly a dimensions for both. You see, iam just trying to do the work myself hoping to save some dough. Any help will help a lot...
peter
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