which is a better track car: GTV or Giulia sedan?

**dan farmer** · #1 (**permalink**) 11-20-2005, 01:21 PM

So, I went to the track for the first time Friday, and I'm bitten. I need a track car. I'm thinking of sticking with an Alfa because I know them mechanically (somewhat), and they have vintage-racing eligibility. My '73 GTV is too pretty and fixed up to put a cage in, so I'm looking for a step-nose GTV or a Giulia sedan. Which is going to be preferable from a handling point-of-view? How about parts availability for the sedan? Any advice is welcome.

TIA-
-df

dretceterini · #2 (**permalink**) 11-20-2005, 05:46 PM

Step nose cars are getting harder and harder to find, and many are being converted to GTA or GTAm "replicars". I think it will be easier and cheaper to find a half way decent Giulia berlina than a step-nose (although these are getting harder to find too)

gtv27 · #3 (**permalink**) 11-21-2005, 02:39 AM

Interesting question. Some thoughts:

Sedan has better aero, but Coupe looks better (arguably).
Sedan has crap rear wheel arches (stuff all room for big tyres), but a longer wheelbase (which is good, and could even help weight dist'n (guessing here)).
Weight difference in favour of Coupe, but not by much.
Sedan has better seating position (better view of road) and more headroom for helmets.
Sedan is safer to crash in (take a look at the B pillar in a coupe one day and consider how little strength there is in it)

In the end it comes down to what you would really prefer (I like both, but have a Coupe and would probably choose another if it came down to it again).

Shaun C · #4 (**permalink**) 11-21-2005, 05:38 AM

To add to the comments above...

- Some feel the Giulia sedan is a more forgiving car to drive than the Coupe.
- Some feel the Giulia sedan has the edge on faster longer sweeps over the Coupe, while the Coupe will be better in the tighter stuff.

Either way, both will be rewarding to drive, and once set-up properly, and with a bit of track time under your belt, you are likely to embarass a number of drivers in more powerful cars.

A Mini driver who was following me this weekend during qualifying (I race a Giulia), complimented the car's ability to stop and turn in - that coming from a driver of a car that is known for its "go-kart" like handling abilities.

Parts availability are the same for both.

I have a question though - is the Step-nose wheel base really longer than the Giulia? I thought all running gear and suspension is fully interchangeable between the two. The Berlina I know has a longer wheelbase, evident in the longer prop shaft, but I thought the coupe's and Giulia sedans were the same.

mvalant · #5 (**permalink**) 11-21-2005, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun C

To add to the comments above...

- Some feel the Giulia sedan is a more forgiving car to drive than the Coupe.
- Some feel the Giulia sedan has the edge on faster longer sweeps over the Coupe, while the Coupe will be better in the tighter stuff.

Either way, both will be rewarding to drive, and once set-up properly, and with a bit of track time under your belt, you are likely to embarass a number of drivers in more powerful cars.

A Mini driver who was following me this weekend during qualifying (I race a Giulia), complimented the car's ability to stop and turn in - that coming from a driver of a car that is known for its "go-kart" like handling abilities.

Parts availability are the same for both.

I have a question though - is the Step-nose wheel base really longer than the Giulia? I thought all running gear and suspension is fully interchangeable between the two. The Berlina I know has a longer wheelbase, evident in the longer prop shaft, but I thought the coupe's and Giulia sedans were the same.

Shaun C · #6 (**permalink**) 11-21-2005, 05:52 AM

So are all three different? (i.e. Jnr, Giulia, Berlina)

benjoys02 · #7 (**permalink**) 11-21-2005, 05:59 AM

i think the best person to ask is anthony rimicci. he and his brother both own a gta, gtv and a super all of which are race cars they both have driven.

**italcarguy** · #8 (**permalink**) 11-21-2005, 08:17 AM

While both cars are very similar, they are so very different. In the end, a the fastest "legal" Super will never be as fast as the fastest "legal" GTV, but you can get them really close. The cool thing about the Super is that all the parts from a GTV bolt right up except for the driveshaft.

The only real issue we are having with the Super is rear wheel/tire clearance. Because of the low rear fender, we can't get anything wider than a 6" wide wheel under there unless we spend a ton of money and have a custom one made. It's going to cost you the same money to build either one of them so it really is up to if you are more concerned with being at the front of your pack or having fun with an car that's not as common at the track.

I built my GT Jr. because at the time, I wanted something as close to a GTA as possible. Fabrizio went with the Super because he wanted something that was close to a GTV but didn't look like one. What club will you be racing with?

PSk · #9 (**permalink**) 11-21-2005, 02:42 PM

I believe the saloon is more aerodynamic ...

Pete

**dan farmer** · #10 (**permalink**) 11-22-2005, 10:21 PM

Thanx for all the info. I won't be racing for a couple of years, i should think. I'll start with schools from AROSC, NCRC, and SF region SCCA. Maybe even one of them fancy pre-feshunul schools. Lots of track days and some AROSC time trials. Eventually, I'd like to race in CSRG, up here in NorCal, and AROSC. As for the car, I guess I'll get whichever I can find for reasonable money - Giulia or GTV. I like the idea of having both a step-nose *and* a smooth-nose GTV, but I also really like the quirky appeal of the Giulia sedan. I am dead set on learnng in a car with a well-built cage, not my pretty little street car. It's pretty clear that a dual-purpose car serves neither purpose very well.

I may need to start with something besides an Alfa, since it seems Alfa racers aren't the cheapest things or super-widely available. Anyone care to chime in with other suitable rwd cars? I've been offered a well-sorted ITC-class Datsun 510 with an excellent cage, two motors, two trannies, two sets of wheels, etc. for $10K. I was hoping to get into this for less than that, but buying a race car far from home is even more difficult than doing that with a street car.

comments?
?df

**jrclem** · #11 (**permalink**) 11-22-2005, 11:04 PM

Whatever you decide... Do buy a race car! DO NOT build one from a street car! Even if you have to re-do a lot of mistakes you will be $$$ ahead with an already converted racer.

Veep · #12 (**permalink**) 11-22-2005, 11:25 PM

I agree, try to find an already modified car!