Entry Speed

[PSk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 60sRacer Murray: the novice driver runs off nose first (understeering), the skilled driver goes off tail first (oversteer). Both go off.

[genericwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 60sRacer Murray, I remember Mid America! Boy was that a long time ago. I think I was 22........

[John M]

Wow....you keep poke'n around that track like that and Enrique might even beat you!

One of these days you have to start driving that car into the corners especially if you plan on ever beating anything white! Were you on street tires? You are coasting as bad if not worse than that last time you posted up a track video. I think everyone is giving you great advice. You need to resist the urge to coast into the corners. Quit cruising and get violent. Apply some Hoosiers, jam that thing into the corner, slap those brakes, turn the wheel, bury the gas pedal, and watch it stick. And if it doesnt...Hell....spinning is kind of fun providing you don't back the car into a wall!!!! Once you get that past you and quit being timid, you will feel a great deal more comfortable and really start to enjoy the drive. You are driving like you are looking right off the nose of the car. Look up, further down the track.

You keep this coasting up....and you are definitely riding the Pain Train 2010 and 2011. You are so going down!!!!

White is clearly faster!!!
John M

[PSk]

I think a lot of people are surprised at how violent a quick lap really is, as they get the "keep it smooth and neat confused".

Basically the car on the outside should look on rails but that does not mean all hell has NOT broken loose inside the car. If the car is not slipping and sliding, and protesting during cornering you have a lot more performance to use.

But saying that the more consistent you can setup a car the easier the quick times will be and you will be able to lap within a 1/10th of a second all day. The good drivers though can repeat their lap times consistently in any car ... but again fast laps don't come from being nice to a car, you have to push it hard (but not ham fistedly abuse it).
Pete

[msiert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John M Wow....you keep poke'n around that track like that and Enrique might even beat you! One of these days you have to start driving that car into the corners especially if you plan on ever beating anything white! Were you on street tires? You are coasting as bad if not worse than that last time you posted up a track video. You are driving like you are looking right off the nose of the car. Look up, further down the track. You keep this coasting up....and you are definitely riding the Pain Train 2010 and 2011. You are so going down!!!! White is clearly faster!!! John M

[msiert]

Maybe I'll sign up for the race driving school at the track. It's a 3 day weekend driving a spec Miata with an instructor and classes. Suppose to be like a Skip Barber racing school.

Now I have gone beyond the limites of adhesion before..............did a 180 last year after bad dwn shift. It actually help me to feel the car lose control and that nothing bad happen.

There are too many things that I have been told to work on and I can't work on all of them at once. Sounds like I need to go back to working on driving the line and using all of the track but I am going to pick a safe corner to push it on.

[John M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk I think a lot of people are surprised at how violent a quick lap really is, as they get the "keep it smooth and neat confused". Pete

[60sRacer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by genericwood Robert, I think you have your tracks a little mixed up. MAM (Mid America Motorsports) is just south of Omaha and is new within the last 10 years (?) or so. MAR (Mid America Raceway) was in Wentzville, just west of St. Louis. It has been closed for a long time.

[60sRacer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by msiert Maybe I'll sign up for the race driving school at the track..

[dretceterini]

I have always raced a front wheel drive car, so the technique is totally different. With a front drive car you brake a bit earlier, downshift BEFORE you even enter the corner, and power through the corner. With a rear wheel drive car you brake later, downshift a bit later, and slide the rear of the car. If you get really good with a rear wheel drive car, your inside front will be a foot off the ground. When I was seriously racing (about 35 years ago), I was driving an under 1 liter Mini Cooper front drive car in International group 2 races (and won 6 races over a period of about 3 years). I raced with the inside REAR 2 feet off the ground! I also drove "old style", and double-clutched every downshift, rather than banging gears. After 40+ years of driving that way it is a totally unconscious habit to double-clutch every shift down, and actually use the clutch when shifting up (but I do not double-clutch when up shifting). I would probably be a bit faster if I simply banged gears up and down, but it is harder on the drive line. How fast do you want to go, and how much are you willing to spend???

[60sRacer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dretceterini ... If you get really good with a rear wheel drive car, your inside front will be a foot off the ground.....

[AndrewO]

Hi Murray,

I'm just a beginner on the track and am trying to learn as well so this is just my experience and not real advice (which I've been reading here and will try to apply myself). Like you, I find all things happen really fast and its hard to put it all together at once. So I had to try to "slow it all down" while speeding myself up. One thing I found to help that is to navigate with my eyes ahead of the car, so I'm looking at what's coming up ahead, then when it gets to me I'm ready for it. Look for the brake point and before you reach it look for the turn in point and before you reach it follow the "line" to the apex and before you reach it look for the point where you will run wide. Somehow your body seems to know how to get to where you are looking.

Someone else said that braking is the last thing you need to work on and I think that's right. Maybe this thread should be titled exit speed.

A thing that helped me last time is to use the exit of the corner as my reference because things seem to be slower in my mind at the exit than at the entry. Pick a mid speed corner with good safe run-off. Preferably your favourite corner. Find the turn-in point, apex and the point at the exit where the really fast drivers always clip the outside of the track. These are your points. Know them by the track surface or kerb or paint or grass on the day but know those points. Burn them into your brain.

(Here's a hint. YouTube your track and try to find a video of a drive day where they have orange cones out on the track to mark those points. Pause it and write down exactly where those markers are.)

At first always turn in at the same point and hit the apex at exactly the same point. Just do that for a few laps. Try to also hit that exit point and know your speed. That's the easy part. Next time after the apex (you always hit the same spot) turn harder and see if you can drive inside the exit point. If you can then you have grip to spare and are going too slow. Push the right foot harder and earlier the next time while also trying to give yourself room at the outside of the track (this also gives you a bit of safety so if you run wide or wiggle you are running wide when 2 feet inside the track and not on the edge). If you run out of power and can still come inside the edge (and everything about what you've said and shown says you should be able to) then start to move backwards from the apex working on the turn in point and then finally the braking point to enter the corner quicker just so you can exit quicker.

Anyway. As you said an instructor can do this for you much better than here but make sure you get a good one. A professional instructor. I've had great drivers tell me different things and confuse me. I know the above worked the last time I was on a track (to my bad ability anyway) and on a track I'd been to a few times I've got one corner down really well (I started to be able to drive more than 3 feet inside the exit point, now I go to the edge) - just 11 corners to go. Then the other 4 tracks I go to.

Did someone mention track time and practice?

Have fun.

[aralfa8589]

I think the racing school is the single best starting point for sure. I learned more in classes than I ever thought possible. The biggest hurdle for me was to maintain the absolute edge in, through, and out of corners. One instructor told me that good cornering simply meant minimizing the time off max throttle. It is not an oversimplification, but it's not simple on many levels.
Ride in a Miata with a skilled instructor. Then you'll drive the same car. You won't believe the difference. It's not even close to fast road driving.
I wish I had done more of this.
We can learn from the school of hard knocks, but the tuition is high in too many ways!

[intune]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewO Hi Murray, I'm just a beginner on the track and am trying to learn as well so this is just my experience and not real advice (which I've been reading here and will try to apply myself). Like you, I find all things happen really fast and its hard to put it all together at once. So I had to try to "slow it all down" while speeding myself up. One thing I found to help that is to navigate with my eyes ahead of the car, so I'm looking at what's coming up ahead, then when it gets to me I'm ready for it. Look for the brake point and before you reach it look for the turn in point and before you reach it follow the "line" to the apex and before you reach it look for the point where you will run wide. Somehow your body seems to know how to get to where you are looking.

[60sRacer]

Hey, Murray,

Look what you've done! First was the super build thread for developing the wunderkar of yours, now you've got a great how-to-race thread started.

Great Job!

Robert