Old Alfa Racer Pics from So. West Div. - Page 10 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

  #136 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 09:47 AM
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Richard Jemison
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SCCA Rules

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Got it. I had just assumed this one was prepared beyond Production Car rules.
No still have lots of room modifying suspension or engine. Still missing are fabricated suspension arms, coilovers etc...
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 04:40 PM
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Nobody will say anything unless the car is fast however stock brakes, stock rotors and calipers, no more than 47 overbore, and original engine location are all required in SCCA EProd class

Thanks for all the pics and progress notes in this thread Richard Car is looking great. I have really enjoyed following your work hear.

Would also be neat if it ran an SCCA National as Spruels 1750 car did several times again earlier this year.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:39 PM
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Richard Jemison
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SCCA rules

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Nobody will say anything unless the car is fast however stock brakes, stock rotors and calipers, no more than 47 overbore, and original engine location are all required in SCCA EProd class
Have you really read the rules? How you read them is very important. Ask the Huffakers....
Engine position... still at the front of the car, stock motormounts (although with welded bands to increase regidity....
Only 1mm (.040) overbore...
Stock brake rotors, however they are turned to a smaller overall diameter (less weight,{ are we racing or stopping?})
Stock brakes, no size increase, have Iron Brembos from same 105 application...(did you know that they were used?)
All gears in the CR box are from 105/115 transmissions(no gta parts), just never installed in quite this way...

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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 08:30 PM
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My apologies, I thought i read earlier in the thread that you had changed the calipers to Milano alloy or something. You are correct that any solid rotor, undrilled and unvented, of same or lesser diameter is ok.

My apologies also that I misread your "20 60" note to mean .060" over. You are correct that .040 is fine.

I am guessing that the oversized valves mentioned earlier were on the engine that came out and that this one has the required SCCA legal stock diameter valves

The intermediate shaft is free and even the motor mounts are unrestricted However moving the engine back and to the right made the car absolutely positively illegal for SCCA production class racing. All a mute point as I am sure it will never run anything but vintage.

You can run any non sequential 5 speed sourced from anywhere so it does not matter where the tranny stuff came from

I do believe it is important that rules not be misinterpreted on a public forum less someone reading make a wrong assumption about there own build.

Please be more considerate of others knowledge Richard. My compliments on the build and appreciation for you so generously sharing all your work and expertise here were sincere
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Last edited by Curtis; 11-15-2011 at 08:35 PM.
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 08:48 PM
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I don't think a 2000 is legal in a round tail 66-69? In SCCA. Maybe some vintage group.
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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 09:28 PM
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I won't tell Karen. If RJ doesn't push it, maybe no-one will notice?
You allowed to drive the old racer RJ? Wife #7 Ok with that? Being banned from the tracks by my wife (#1), I content myself watching my son race, while I muddle along on the street with my ex racer.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:40 PM
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No spouse to tell me if I can race or not. No money to race either. But 20+ seasons of racing almost scratched the itch. Once you have really raced, the desire to do it again never goes away.
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2011, 09:56 PM
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That's true, but the CARS stay young while you grow old! If you keep the good ones, as I did, or are REALLY lucky like RJ and find your old ride, you always wonder if you could still keep up. My wife was wise enough to tell me that though my cars were still fast, and young drivers maybe faster, I p r o b a b l y was not. A point well taken!
The desire NEVER does go away. Time for my son John to have a go.
Below: Drivers School.
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and sometimes, CONFUSED AND INCORRECT, but Larry helps me out.
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2011, 02:08 PM
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Richard Jemison
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Scca

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I don't think a 2000 is legal in a round tail 66-69? In SCCA.
Yes they can. Any Alfa Spider can run a 2 liter at the same weight (1950lbs with driver) or the 66-71 "Duetto" can be run at 1870 lbs with 1600 or 1800 motor. No reason for that.

Brake rotors are pretty open, same width/diameter, but can be two piece with alumn hats and drilled/slotted. The Aluminum Brembos are already approved for Alfetta with ventilated rotors. No one has requested specification change for the 105/115 cars.

Look at last pics of engine bay. Look moved??
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Last edited by Alfar7; 11-16-2011 at 03:58 PM.
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2011, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Alfar7 View Post
Yes they can. Any Alfa Spider can run a 2 liter at the same weight (1950lbs with driver) or the 66-71 "Duetto" can be run at 1870 lbs with 1600 or 1800 motor. No reason for that.

Brake rotors are pretty open, same width/diameter, but can be two piece with alumn hats and drilled/slotted. The Aluminum Brembos are already approved for Alfetta with ventilated rotors. No one has requested specification change for the 105/115 cars.

Look at last pics of engine bay. Look moved??
From what I've seen, the only things not to the Production Car rules are the oversize valves, relocated engine position and aluminum calipers. Of course not very many people would even notice these things. That is if you hadn't put the information out for all to see on the BB!

Have fun driving the car. It is really cool that you got the car back after all these years!
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2011, 07:30 PM
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Ref. SCCA Production car specifications (pcs) GCR page 501 7a ...."Brake rotors can not be cross drilled or slotted unless fitted as stock".....

Reacting to guys like Richard that prepare cars to Nth degree attending to every little detail, and in the process beating those less resourceful who do not, is how the SCCA rule book grew to more 700 pages over the last 60 years.
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  #147 (permalink)  
Old 11-17-2011, 05:47 AM
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SCCA Brake rules Production

I started to get my old printed SCCA Stewards GCR out as memory is questionable, but the on-line proved easier to quote:
Quote:
7. Brakes Level 1 and 2
a. Stock calipers must be retained. Cars fitted with integral hat
brake rotors can convert to a two piece design hat and brake
rotor. The alternate design hat must be made of ferrous or
aluminum material. Alternate discs can be used, but must be
made of ferrous material. Alternate drums can be used, but
must be made of a ferrous or aluminum material. Alternate
discs and drums must be the stock diameter, width and design.
Brake rotors can not be cross drilled or slotted unless fitted as
stock.(Rj note: or listed on optional column in GCR)
b. Cars fitted with rear drum brakes, can convert to rear disc
brakes. When converting from rear drum brakes to rear disc
brakes:
1. Rear brake rotors can be no larger in diameter than the
largest permitted front brake rotor. Rear brake rotors must
be solid and made of a ferrous material. Rear brake rotors
can not be cross drilled or slotted.
2. Rear brake rotor hats can be made of a ferrous or aluminum
material.
3. Rear calipers and mounting brackets are unrestricted but
must be made of a ferrous or aluminum material.
The standard and alternate brake listings on a vehicle’s specification
line, does not prohibit a car that was fitted with rear
drum brakes as stock from converting to rear disc brakes under
this rule.
c. Dual braking systems are required. Any dual brake master
cylinder(s) and pedal assembly can be fitted. Pressure equalizing
and proportioning valve devices are unrestricted.
d. Servo assists are unrestricted.
e. Drum brake wheel cylinders are unrestricted.
f. Brake pads and brake linings are unrestricted.
g. Brake lines are unrestricted.
h. The hand brake and its operating mechanism can be removed.
i. Brake Ducting
1. Brake air ducts can be fitted.
2. The front brake duct inlet(s) must not extend to the side
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 06:37 AM
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Roebling Road VDCA event

Well, the weekend at Roebling went fairly well. There were 6 Alfa`s racing and most left the track in reasonable condition.

I dropped a exhaust valve seat in the 2nd session, but the car handled absolutely beautifully. Nobody to blame that I don`t see in the mirror. I purposedly opened the valve seats anout 2mm more than usual so this goes to development issues.
As well, after 8 years of not racing I have some driver development to do....

Unfortunately the most valuable Alfa there was Sharon Adelman`s Giulietta SZ which she rolled over in turn 0ne. Unlike the car she is fine.
I`ll post pics later..
Rj
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  #149 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 07:11 AM
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Ouch. So sorry about your engine Richard! Any idea how much was destroyed in process of consuming the seat, or did you maybe catch it just wiggling loose before it broke the valve?

I experienced a loose for the first time last Spring. Had a miss that came and went as the valve alternately sealed or didn't seal on the seat. It almost always reseated before shutdown so we could not diagnose with lash. When it finally broke the valve, at redline, the engine self-destructed . I was lucky to save the Carbs and headers.

Hope your incident didn't cause much damage. Very neat that you are driving again
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  #150 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 09:02 AM
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I was eagerly awaiting this report to see if you both survived! A reasonable sorting-out session after long absence.
The GTA sand-cast heads liked to blow out exhaust seats due to porosity of the casting. # 954 bronze seats, along with sealing the bare aluminum helped. While your head isn't porous, I wonder if the bronze seat even thinned, might seat tighter in the aluminum as the valve hammers it? As you know, the cams we used then had nasty ramps, unlike yours, and valves did recede into the seats. Just a thought.
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and sometimes, CONFUSED AND INCORRECT, but Larry helps me out.
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