Stiff gear shifter, not in linkage

[mrman]

Hi folks,

88 Milano gold 2.5 5 speed. 2nd gear synchro is likely worn out because it grinds if you don't double clutch from 1-2 or 3-2. The car has been sitting for 2 years. The gear shifter is really, really stiff from front/back and side/side. I bought it from someone whos son did not have it on the road for about 9 months and it sat outside over the winter. The owner didn't know if the gear shifter was always this stiff or if it got stiff over the winter. The car is not yet on the road so I don't know if it will work its self out. I am pretty sure it is not in the linkage because the shifter has some play and when I get someone to sit in the car and wiggle it while I am underneath looking at the linkage, i can see movement in the linkage... then when I tell my helper to actually go all the way side/side or front/back, I can see the lever thingy that attaches to the tranny move. I have driven it a couple kms around the neighbor hood and it doesn't seem any better. tranny fluid has been changed with General Motors Synchro lube (to hopefully bring the syncro back or protect the others hehe). Is this stiffness likely to clear up with driving? It doesn't look like it is easy to lube...

Thanks.

[Giorgio68]

How is the clutch pedal feel, does it release all the way back to normal position.

The only 2 things I can think of is clutch master or slave, check if there are any leaks or air in the system.

Giorgio

[jazig.k]

you say the lever is stiff side to side, not in-gear i persume. i dont think that would be the master or slave cylinders.

have you pulled the linkages out? might be worth a look to see if the bushes have bee 'dodged' up, to replace worn out ones or to get rid of some slack [my 75 had some VERY dodgey 'bushes' and washers fitted to attempt a fix].
over tightening of the linking bolts can make it tighter too.

[Nicola]

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[mrman]

jazig.k - bushes... are they under the gear shifter (like near the middle of the vehicle when viewed from underneath) or do you mean bushings in the actual gear box that support the gear selector shaft? I was thinking of taking the interior console cover (plastic cover) right under the gear shifter off just to have a look down there... I am wondering if this is where you meant the bushings were... there is obviously somekind of linkage there and I can't see it from under the car - there is a heat shield I think covering everything... I noticed there is a bolt accessible on the drivers side of the gearbox that looks like the detent spring guide in the manual. I am wondering if pulling out this bolt and putting tranny fluid right in that hole will put lubricant directly on the gear selector shaft which might be the problem...

I also realize one can't just pull out bolts willy nilly or really bad things could happen... this is why I am asking... thanks for any feedback!

[1166]

You probably have some frozen bushings. You will need to take apart ALL of the linkage, disassemble, clean, lube/replace all of the bushings. If the bushing at the gearshift base is frozen it get hard to push back and forth - take the pinchbolt out, press out the bushing with a long bolt and sockets, clean it and lube with good grease (NOT lithium grease). That bushing will clean up and survive just fine. The bolt should be tight as the pivot action is between the the shift lever and the bushing, NOT between the bolt and the rod. The bushings at the back of the linkage will freeze up and make the lever stiff from side to side. You will need to drive out a roll pin and disassemble the end of the shift rod to hopefully disassemble and clean the 2 bushing (they have not been available for years). It is remotely possible the 2 small bushings at the end are making the stiff front to back, but unlikely. The sooner you take it apart and do this the happier you will be!

[mrman]

Hi there 1166,

OK... I am satisfied it is not stiff in the linkage... I took the aluminum shield off that is above the catalytic converter and could see the bottom of the shift lever and that piviot joint. it is now lubed. Next I went to the transmission end of the linkage. There is enough play in the bushing due to wear and am certain it could not be binding... but I discovered it is the reason why the shift lever can move back and forth about an inch with no resistance .... i suspect if I replaced that worn bushing in the back it would be tight in the side to side motion just like new. I am now satisfied that the left/right and front/back stiffness in the shifter is in the transmission, not in the linkage.... now what? as per my questions above, is there any hope in taking the detent spring guide (looks like a bolt) out and lubricating directly on the shift rod while still inside the transmission or is this asking for trouble? I noticed 2 bolts on the top of the gear box just to the rear of the speedometer sensor... are these the detent spring guides? Also, there is another bolt with a square head on the side/bottom of the gear box just to the rear of the speedo sensor... what does this bolt hold? Thanks for any advice.

Also, does anyone think the stiffness will just go away once it is driven for a few miles? It has been sitting for a few years...

[1166]

The squre 'bolts' hold the detent springs and balls.

What happens when you move the lever side to side more than an inch? Did you verify the lower shift bushing is free or did you just lube it?

[mrman]

I lubed it without disassembly. I am thinking there is so much play in that bushing that it would be next to impossible for it to be causing the stiffness side to side. Is it a brass bushing? I may get one made to fit somewhere to take out the side to side play in the shifter.

[1166]

Did lubing the bushing without disassembly make it any easier to move it back and forth?

I have been doing this for a long time and I live in the Northeast where rust is a problem. The bushings in the shifter assembly will be OK for several years, but sitting kills them by allowing the corrosion to fester. The corrosion take up space and tightens up the clearances. Using it sometimes can make it worse. My wife's Milano was starting to get a little tight back and forth, which she failed to mention to me. We went away for the weekend and by the time we got back I was surprised I didn't snap off the shiftlever it was so hard to move! By the weekends end, I was shifting 1 to 5th every time I could. The bottom bushing took a press to remove it, I cleaned it up, put it back together and all was well.

Milanos and late GTV6's that have the stiff shifting have a shift linkage that needs attention. Disassembly, cleaning and maybe replacing the parts is the only way to go. I have never had a transmission that was hard to shift from internal problems. It has always been the linkage.

[mrman]

OK... you sound experienced and I am not so I will listen for sure and recheck the rear bushing again. Here is another way to check... if I disconnect the linkage totally at the gear box, should I be able to move the shift detent rod in/out and ccw/cw by hand? If it is supposed to be loose but I am not strong enough to do it this would prove it is in the transmission right? On the other hand, if I can easily move it by hand, it will prove the linkage is to blame. So I know what to do if it is the linkage as per your instructions. what can I do if it is the detent rod? It is crazy to think I can remove the detent spring guide and spray some lube up there or is this a low/no risk reasonable thing to attempt?

It is an understatement to say I appreciate all the help...

[Craig]

G'Day ????,

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrman It is crazy to think I can remove the detent spring guide and spray some lube up there or is this a low/no risk reasonable thing to attempt?

[mrman]

OK... I have spent quality time under the car trying to figure out how to get the linkage apart at the gearbox end. It seems like the cross member is in the perfect position to block my view and space for my hands to take the linkage apart, clean it and lube it properly. Does the cross member have to come off (which means taking the De-dion axle off too) or is there an access panel from back seat? Maybe you guys simply have really tiny hands and can get in there.... oh.. .and you would have to see around corners too

One more thing: the linkage bar that comes from the front of the car has a pin where it connects to the rear linkage. there is a hole in part #18 in the diagram above... but the diagram doesn't show a pin or small allen key. Is it a pin to be pounded/pushed out or is it a hex key to be unscrewed?

[Craig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrman It seems like the cross member is in the perfect position to block my view and space for my hands to take the linkage apart, clean it and lube it properly. Does the cross member have to come off (which means taking the De-dion axle off too) or is there an access panel from back seat? Maybe you guys simply have really tiny hands and can get in there.... oh.. .and you would have to see around corners too

[mrman]

Thanks Craig. the photo and diagram above are really helpful. Do you think the cross member/de-dion axle and gearbox (front only) can be lowered 2 or 3 inches without damaging the gear box or the propeller shaft? This would be much easier than removing the tranny/cross member mount bolts and the de-dion bolt. Would this warrant a re-alignment when finished?

Also, I am thinking if I could get the roll pin out, I could slide part 22 forward off of part 18 and grease between them. This seems the most likely part that is sticking and worth a try before disassembling the radio or cylinder head just to lubricate the shift linkage hehe.