head gasket replacement questions

[superloaf]

so i'm finally getting around to replacing the head gaskets on my 2.5 and i have some questions:

do the oil galley plugs need o rings or does the rubber seal built into the gasket offer enough sealing? i ask because a mechanic at an alfa repair shop said to always install the o rings in addition to whatever the head gasket has. and of course another mechanic said that the head gasket seal is all that's needed. i've also seen differing opinions on the BB.

is there anything unusual or not obvious i need to know about this work? i have the factory manuals but just wondering what others have learned.

also, the head gaskets i have come with installation and torquing instructions which say:

1) 3 Kpm =21 ft. pounds
2) 6 Kpm =43
3) 9 Kpm =65
4) -90* & +9 Kpm
5) run the engine to total opening of thermostat
6) let engine cool for 4 hours
7) open the cap of the expansion jar of the circuit water cooling
8) -90* & +9Kpm

"Retightening-Yes"

so what's with the -90 degrees? have you guys ever heard of this method? also, it gives no specifics for the retightening but i'm assuming another -90* and then tighten to 65 ft/lbs again so that has a total of 3 times torquing and then loosening 90*--does that make sense & sound right?

thanks

[superloaf]

no one out there has done a head gasket?

[RAGs]

What brand gasket are you using? Are you pulling the engine or working in the bay?

I've used this torquing method before but not on an Alfa! (on late model Volvos). But it is usually a number of degrees after a specified torque value. The only time I seen this type of angeled "back off" after torquing was on a wheel bearing (and that made sense).

My 2 cents ... follow Alfa's torque specifications.

As far as I know the newer one piece gasket is all you need. The older version needed the beefy O-ring or it seemed to leak. Maybe the mechanic is being overly protective? I can't see how adding another O-ring to the newer gaskets helps.

This may be a good time to check the head for flatness if overheating occurred.
Good luck.

[superloaf]

the gaskets are made by Ajusa and the instructions are pretty complete so i think i would want to follow them. i was just wondering if they were common or if i had some weird gaskets. what are the torquing specs for the gaskets everyone else is using and what brand is most common? these gaskets appear to be quality.

the engine is out of car--i bought the car not running and found a used engine which i heard run but when i got it home and drained the oil, i found some sludge. the engine only has 65k miles on it and looks brand new inside--i've never opened an engine up before and seen it so clean! but the water jackets have lots of junk in there so i think someone must have run pure water in there. the left bank head gasket is quite puffy and in need of renewing--haven't pulled the right yet.

[slyalfa]

I forgot the "O" on one side and it is still holding so far. but why risk it put one in, it will not hurt.
and I have seen a lot of the old gaskets where it riped and blew out right there. and the only thing keeping the oil in was the extra 'O'
now I think there is some with a thick 'O' as parts of the gaskit and some with out anything there. if it has a bultin 'O' I would check that the extra fits. if it does fit then use it. but if the bultin one fits tight on the oil tube and there is no space for the extra 'O' then I would not use it as somthing it going to bust when you force the extra O where there is no space.

[superloaf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyalfa I forgot the "O" on one side and it is still holding so far. but why risk it put one in, it will not hurt. and I have seen a lot of the old gaskets where it riped and blew out right there. and the only thing keeping the oil in was the extra 'O' now I think there is some with a thick 'O' as parts of the gaskit and some with out anything there. if it has a bultin 'O' I would check that the extra fits. if it does fit then use it. but if the bultin one fits tight on the oil tube and there is no space for the extra 'O' then I would not use it as somthing it going to bust when you force the extra O where there is no space.

[Craig]

G'Day Bob,

I think Steve's posts here should answer any questions re. 'O' rings.

[superloaf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig G'Day Bob, I think Steve's posts here should answer any questions re. 'O' rings.

[slyalfa]

yea that is a good link. I forgot about the cut in one. if you have the cutout on the pin you need that one extra. and it will not touch the bultin one as it slides inside the head past the head gaskit..

[superloaf]

ok, apparently no one has the o rings to sell me. and even fewer even know what they are. how can alfa only mechanics not know anything about these o rings here in LA? i've got to say that this is the most annoying part of alfa ownership: no one ever seems to say the same thing or know the "right" way to do things.

so no one stocks it, no one sells it, no one's heard of them--so what the hell do i do now and what do others usually do? i can't be the first person to run into this problem. do the o rings for the 4 cylinder fit? do i use a generic o ring? do i just ignore it (like all the alfa shops seem to do)? WTF

and one other question i have is regarding the oil pan gasket. there appear to be 2 different gaskets for the milano: up to '87 and then '88 and up. problem is i don't know which year engine i have so i'm not sure about the correct gasket. does anyone know the difference? i'm guessing i need the later one since my engine has the o ring pins which i believe come on '87 and up.

ok, thanks

[mike maserati]

O.K about the final 90 degree yes this is done after the final torque down. i wated a hour to 2 at room temp the head will settle in. That what service manuel says to do. But this is on factory Gotez Gasket which i recommend to use. bimmers, mercedes,alfa,fiat,lancia use. I watch alfa mechanic here and in italy and always they do that stupid touque senquence.