3.0 24v conversion

[alfaspence]

Hi everyone,
I have a 75 3ltr veloce with a "getting tired" 12 valve motor (blue smoke under hard acceleration, compressions all over the place)
I also have a low milleage (46k) 24valve motor that i removed from a 164 auto.
When i broke the 164 i kept back the engine, inlet plenum & tb/exp headers/ engine bay wire harness/ alternator/ a.f.m and ecu
What else do i need to get this engine up and running using its original motronic system in my 75?
Allthough i'd love to do what jj does... i havn't the time (daily driver) or enough money...

[junglejustice]

If you want to run the stock setup as it was in the 164, make sure that you have the following (you won't have the CEL on the dash to tell you of any problems, so you would have to double-check systems and trace wires yourself!)

Something as simple as swapping the tails to the idle-control and to say the front knock-sensor could result in as much as 20-30% less power (happened to me on my one LS/Super), as well as the desire/signal for a CEL on the dash of the 164, but you won't have it on the 75), so you have to be sure...

I also had the TPS and the rear knock-sensor swapped one time - also resulting in a CEL and poor performance!

In all - in addition to the motor, the ECU, the intake runners, the intake plenum, the idle-control unit, the AFM with TPS and the alternator - make sure that you have the two knock sensors, the cam-angle sensor, the crank-angle sensor, and ALL of the wiring harness, (both sides of the fire-wall) - you will be eliminating some of it down the line...

You need the starter from your V6 75, as well as the tail-housing and some other sundry pieces (but this is the bulk of it!) Your car is an ABS car, correct? Lucky you! No pedal-box or booster and brake/clutch-masters to mess with! OH YEAH! Hang-on - you're right-hand drive too aren't you ya lucky bugger (maybe...!)

You'll also need custom headers and the intake plenum converted.

Shoot us some pics of your engine bay please (with details around the driver-side and passenger-side fire-wall!) I would like to see where the ABS unit sits, if it is all linked over like the boosters on the SA GTV6 cars, or in-front of the driver...?) It would also be good to see clearances where the new intake plenum is going to rest (on your driver-side!)

[alfaspence]

Thanks for the imput jj, my car hasn't got abs! (i thought that was a good thing?!) it also hasn't got a sunroof or air con! just as well we have pants summers!!
The 24v engine is still as it was removed (electrics just un plugged) all sensors are present inc all coil packs etc the only thing i don't have but isn't a problem is the p steering pump.
I have the complete harness from the engine bay including the dashboard loom and main instrument display (speedo tacho etc) so if needs be (asuming the "cel" is what i think you mean) can be adapted into my dash?

[alfaspence]

[alfaspence]

Hope the pics clarify what you wanted to know? Also, someone told me that ive got to space out the flywheel as the 164 crank is shorter than milano/75, is this correct??!!

[AR4me]

I think that is for transplant to GTV6. I put a 1992 164 3.0 12v QV engine in my 1987 Milano/75 2.5 V6 and did NOT need any spacer etc. Measure the two engines relative to a chassis fixing point, e.g. front engine mounts to rear crank where flywheel bolts.

You may need to consider what flywheel to use

Jes

[junglejustice]

Just as I thought - they keep the booster on the other side just like on the SA GTV6 cars with a linkage over from the driver-side...

This one is a toss-up; I wonder how far back the booster is mounted given that the pedal box is not behind it as with the European and US cars...? You probably need to find an Alfetta or S2/S3 Spider booster! Also an Ate booster from an E30 BMW will work (must be Ate...)

The 3.0 Milano Verde/75 V6 flywheel is a direct bolt-over - you just need longer flywheel bolts that stick out at least 12mm or so on the other side - use blue Lock-Tite!

[alfaspence]

The 3.0 Milano Verde/75 V6 flywheel is a direct bolt-over - you just need longer flywheel bolts that stick out at least 12mm or so on the other side - use blue Lock-Tite![/quote]

Thats what i thought!!! But as you can guess i had to ask the question...
The plan is to collect all the bits i may need (ready for an install) so i can just set about the job and have it done in a week?

Thanks for the imput jj and Jes any other ideas greatly appreciated

[AR4me]

You might want to consider doing some of the oil seals when the engine is out, e.g. the rear main usually requires the engine to come out, so, since you have it out... even the pipe (cigarette) seals are much easier with the engine out.

On the 164 QV 3.0 12v I did rear main seal (rear crank seal), front crank seal, cam seals, distributor seal (which you don't have), oil pump pulley seal, spark plug well seals, pipe (cigarette) seals. I did all engine maintenance as well: waterpump, T-belt, tensioner, ... Doing all the above including the conversion to drop it into the Milano/75 took quite a bit longer than a week (working weekends and week day evenings pretty intensively). On the 164 12v I had to change the lower front engine cover to a Milano/75 cover and tap it for mounting the crank angle sensor - also had to drill some holes in the 164 block for mounting of the Milano/75 sump. Not sure about the 24v when it comes to the lower front engine cover and drilling the block for the Milano/75 sump.

Of course, if your oil seals show no sign of weeping, then why fix something that isn't broke? ...

Jes

[junglejustice]

I also have the headers for you to fit that motor in the TA car (as the stock ones won't fit!)

What year was your 24v motor from? (None of the European/UK cars had the EGR/recirc valves like the US cars did in 1995, did they!?) If so, you would have to add that port to whatever headers you are going to use...

I have the right oval-port headers to fit the 24 valve motor in the 75 though - email me at info@glenwoodalfa.com or buzz me here in the US (PST) at 091.425.941.4747.

I also have ready to go converted intake plenums for you. (Personally I prefer the enlarged plenum with the throttle-body moved to the center over the awkward 180 degree-bend conversion...

[alfaspence]

164 was a "k" reg '92 to '93 with only 46k on the clock!!
(direct email sent)

[alfaspence]

progress pictures (its been a while) coming soon