Milano "Pro 75" Spec Series!

[junglejustice]

So, I have been banging this idea around for a good while now; the thought of 20-30 equally-yoked Milanos all diving in together for the first turn may-lay...!

The BMW guys up here in the NW started a low budget spec-grid a few years ago and it is becoming very popular! It is based on the mid-'80s E30 325i as their base car for the series called Pro 3. (I hear that there is a similar grid back East as well!) It runs a stock motor and it is very popular because of how closely-matched the cars are and because of the relatively low budget (compared to say a Vintage 105 effort for example!)

They run closed, stock engines, but they are permitted to do a UniChip piggy-back engine management system, headers and exhaust; that's about it for power! Full roll cages, (2 and 4 door cars allowed), sun-roofs welded shut (but you can base your build on a 318i without a sunroof if you put the 6 cylinder in) and then full cages.

They run full-race interiors, but with a stock dash though (Group 2 has built several of these cars now...) They run standard brakes (but with upgraded pads), suspension mods are pretty open but limited to the stock mounting points, (they do make the mods up top at the strut-tower to allow for camber-changes) and then they run standard 15" wheels and tires.

All of the cars are virtually identical and the drivers have to really buff their driving-skills! Last year the grid had something like 18 cars and this year they have 31, so it is becoming VERY popular!

What got me thinking was how close these cars are (generational) to the Milanos! I have even thought about an annual BMW/Alfa mixed grid - a friendly perhaps - that would be CRAZY! Both cars were produced in the mid to late '80s and they both ran 6 cylinder 2.5 litre 12 valve engines with L-Jet ignition! Both weigh about the same and put out around 155 horsepower stock.

It would be a fantastic match!

Suspension-wise they were very different and that is where the idea becomes interesting to me. I have SEVERAL devoted Alfa buddies up here who also run the Pro 3 series interestingly enough! These are NOT what you would consider "typical BMW-pukes" - these guys love the Alfa brand, but also like the idea of a matched spec-series! BMW guys delivered.

Rather than beat them up for it, perhaps Alfa guys could do the same!?

[SamW]

I like the idea, should be plenty of Milano 2.5's running around!

[junglejustice]

Can you imagine!? The base Milano 2.5 motors (as with the BMW 325 engines) are plentiful and when properly serviced - bullet-proof!) You need something like 5 cars to start a series within SCCA (or run Conference perhaps?)

Specifications;

1) Stock Milano/75 shell - sunroof or NO sunroof cars allowed (sunroofs can/should be welded shut!)

2) Stock dash (but it can be gutted of the heaters, excess wires etc - or not - gets pretty cold up here), stock instrumentation, but you can add additional monitoring such as oil-temp, shift-lights etc. Full roll-cages and 5-points - open seats/steering/shifter (Sparco, OMP, Momo etc interiors.)

3) Fuel-cells, fire-systems, nets etc - the usual safety equipment required!

4) Stock V6 2.5 litre 12 valve engines only - L-jet can be UniChipped (perhaps you allow programmable engine management system such as GoTech, SDS, Motec, Autronic, or whatever - or not - keep cost down...) For the most part the idea is a STOCK compression, stock cam, stock displacement - readily available 2.5 litre 12 valve V6 Alfa motor!

5) Headers and exhaust - open.

6) Conversion to manual steering racks - perhaps - A/C pumps removed - save some weight and simplify things up front a bit?

7) 4.1:1 transaxles - LSD - ratios open. Clutches open. Lightening of the gears - up in the air - perhaps? Stock drive-shafts.

8) Suspension is "open" but you HAVE to retain the stock mounting points, (so we can do bigger torsion bars, Konis, Bilsteins or even the full RSRacing kits), heim-joint watts links and bigger anti-roll bars - as long as the mounting points are not modified!

Perhaps you allow the 105 castor-rod ball-joint conversions - those are fun.

9) Stock 15" wheels - tires are open.

10) Stock brakes, but pads are open and so are cooling ducts. Perhaps you allow rear mods to include SZ-style vented rotors. Perhaps you spec the Group 2/GiroDisc brakes as an acceptable upgrade or maybe even (as with the suspension) call the brakes "open" as long as you retain the stock mounting ears up front on the spindle and they fit underneath the 15" rim!

At the rear they are NOT converted to outboard - you retain the stock inboard setup - sandwiched between the axles and the TA - but you can do the floating hats/vented rears for cooling. (In the long run this rule-variance will help keep cost down due to more adequate cooling and longer life to the TA.)

11) Lights can be upgraded to Euro-spec and additional spot-lights may be added (perhaps for an annual enduro/8 hour event - run partially at night!?)

12) Lightening of the bumpers or the addition of one-piece Twin Spark Euro bumpers allowed - no Evo kits - keep costs down.

13) Fiberglass replacement hoods and trunks allowed (or not?) Somebody could go in to business here as the sole-provider of fiberglass-replacement front fenders, front and rear bumpers, trunks and hoods!

14) Battery relocated to the rear-passenger side.

15) Standard windshield - Plexiglas/Lexan the rest of the way!

That's about it! What do you guys think?

[AR4me]

I think rules should be directed at limiting cost of build and maintenance! You don't want it to end up costing a smaller fortune to put together a competitive car (of course, paying someone to build it will always cost $$$, but given that you do the work yourself it should be affordable). This will allow more people to consider it, and everyone should be even (car-wise) anyway.

So, you might as well disallow light weight body panels, fancy brakes, require stock transmission (gear lightning may be ok as it extends life of syncros = saves $$$ in the long run), stock platinum LSD. The suspension is one area where some room may make sense IMO.

Although this sounds like fun I wonder how many people would actually do it...???

Jes

[junglejustice]

Well, I know of at least two guys who would...

[Hit an Apex]

I like this idea. I'd win every race. (granted there was an eastern division and we ran a car)

[Hit an Apex]

On a more important note, who would sanction it?

[nizam]

We did that last year.

Car was $200, tires were donated and about the only "expensive" thing on the car were the Ferodo brake pads. The cage was a modified Autopower cage from another car.

I'd say we could get a series started for less than $1,000 a car. It wouldn't be as hi-tech as the Bee-Emm boys but boy would it be fun

[Alfar7]

There is already a place for them to race in SCCA regional series racing. The 2.5 Milano is classed in ITS (Improved Touring 9-103 pg 310). Weight (with driver) 2780 lbs, using Bosch L jetronic FI . But not with all the "Rice Rocket Wigs & Things". Not to be a bubble buster, but there will never be a separate class for Milanos, or any other Alfa. Mazda got it because of entry numbers in IT regionally & SSB nationally with the Miata. And because of their $CCA $upport.
As to non SCCA racing it`s a dream to think you are goning to get 20 or even 10 (I`ll bet 5) Milanos at the same track with a "SPEC" level of preparation. Alfa owners are too independent & cheap to toe the line particularly to spend the $$ with "a run at the back" car. That`s why they are not racing.
Sorry for the reality check.

[Hit an Apex]

Moreover how do you plan to make sure people don't throw in S-cams and the like?

Go to sealed motors built by a shop that wins the contract, and now costs are suddenly getting out of control.

[Grant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hit an Apex Moreover how do you plan to make sure people don't throw in S-cams and the like? Go to sealed motors built by a shop that wins the contract, and now costs are suddenly getting out of control.

[Grant]

I think if we ever did have a Spec Milano race catagory, it would have to be through the AROSC. There aren't enough Alfa owners willing to put in that kind of dough to get SCCA sanctioning.

Also, I think a stock E30 325is is way faster than a stock Milano 2.5. I don't think it would even work if we ran with the other Spec E30s! Milano 3.0 maybe?

[Hit an Apex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant Other racing venues have a system where any engine can be bought by the racing sanction if there's ever a dispute about what kind of equiptment the person is running. Someone making the claim puts down some moeny, and the racing sanction puts down some more to buy the engine very cheaply (like $400). If the person has$ 1.5K put into the engine, he/she is at a huge loss. If the person is actually running a stock engine, he/she is doing fine.

[Grant]

If the AROSC did run something like this, I don't think we would even really have to worry about people cheating. A lot of people know each other on a personal level. But AROSC is not really an option anyhow, most people already have their race cars.

Platinum vs Gold Silver:

Wouldn't be entireyl fair, but either a Platinum LSD could be run or the lesser models could have their spider gears welded. Another variable is ABS vs non-ABS. ABS is good on these cars and would be an advantage on the track.

[Hit an Apex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant Wouldn't be entireyl fair, but either a Platinum LSD could be run or the lesser models could have their spider gears welded. Another variable is ABS vs non-ABS. ABS is good on these cars and would be an advantage on the track.