05-18-2007, 03:04 PM
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Wow, two estimates and mine is cheaper ... no bodywork on mine! I'm racing it as-is!  |
05-18-2007, 03:06 PM
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit an Apex
And do you think that motor is going to last for more than a lap?
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See: http://www.cdglobal.net/nizam/lemons.html
You bet it never had the type of love we're thinking about putting into our spec cars.
Edit to add pic:
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05-18-2007, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nizam
My dear friend, our $200 Milano last year for the 24Hours of Lemons ran for two straight days, finishing eighth in a field of 34.
See: http://www.cdglobal.net/nizam/lemons.html
You bet it never had the type of love we're thinking about putting into our spec cars. |
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05-18-2007, 03:09 PM
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True - and this year we'll be running a FREE car. Those V6's are pretty solid motors. Just make sure they have coolant and oil, they keep running!
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05-18-2007, 03:16 PM
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I think Jes might be making commissions.. 
The point is to pick a 'spec' suspension not allow the people who can and want to spend $2200 on a suspension to do so. And I at least am not 'objecting' to the RSR. If the RSR was the lower cost option in the suspension world, I'd be all for it.
I guess we just need to decide if we want the 'spec' to be what we all think is fun and cool or if we want it to be the lowest cost functional setup we can derive? 'Cause if we're going for what we really want I'll jump on the RSR wagon, add the LSD too, and GoTech, headers, make the 'S' engine the spec and lets get some brakes!!
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James
1984 GTV6
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05-18-2007, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo Leader
If the RSR was the lower cost option in the suspension world, I'd be all for it.
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My estimate is below Carter's Spec-E30 WITH the RSRacing coilovers and you're STILL complaining?
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05-18-2007, 03:21 PM
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peace peace! I hadn't seen it! I was typing away in 'Advanced' mode!
You guys running the same Milano in the LeMons? or did you get one gifted to you to compete with this year? Awesome stuff, BTW, LeMons seems like yet more fun you west coasters get to have.... 
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James
1984 GTV6
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05-18-2007, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo Leader
You guys running the same Milano in the LeMons? or did you get one gifted to you to compete with this year? Awesome stuff, BTW, LeMons seems like yet more fun you west coasters get to have.... |
But our new FREE car is now ready to do battle (still lots to do on it, like put in a cage, racing seat, harness, extinguisher, etc):
Free/cheap Milanos are out there, you just have to dig a little deeper than the Search button on your browser
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05-18-2007, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR4me
You need the 4 corners and the 30 mm front swaybar. How much is that? $2200? Leave the stock torsion bars, rear sway bar, and watts linkage. Is that so terrible for transforming the car into a nice handling car on the track? Interestingly, most objection to the RSR is from people who have never tried it. I don't recall anyone with RSR experience speaking against it. It is natural to doubt something you haven't tried, but I think it says a lot that people who have tried it is willing to cough up the $$$ for yet another set.
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Getting real for a moment - if 2,200 makes the difference between doing it or not, then we have no business even talking about this. In fact, lets stop talking like the "cheap Alfa people" Richard Jemison said that we are - think 15K or don't do it.
I have seen enough of these Pro 3 cars come through here to know (and building my 3.7 and working with Jes on his teaches one a few things about final budget...) If you make 4-5K your number and 6-7 means no go or you shoot for 7 and 10K means NO - forget it.
These cars will cost 10-15K...
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Full-Race 3.7 Litre 24v Milano; Street/Track 3.0 Litre 24v Milano Verde; 2.0 TS '73 GTV; 6-speed 3.45 litre 24v Street 164 LS/Super; '06 Scion XB - Runs!
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05-18-2007, 04:28 PM
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If we're going to no longer shoot for the ground floor, I want to add the LSD and Superchargers. Think $20k or don't do it.
These cars are going to cost 15-20k...
I guess I just don't see the point of escalating the cost when it isn't required...What's the point?
Nizam, awesome looking car for a free-be!! I don't think deals like that exist in the rust-belt. Anything that gets down towards the 'free' zone is consumed by rust. All this talk of free Alfas, spec racing and LeMons participation makes me want to pack up and move.
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Last edited by Echo Leader; 05-18-2007 at 04:31 PM.
Reason: augmented
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05-18-2007, 04:38 PM
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James I like your point! Go big or go home!!
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05-18-2007, 04:43 PM
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Haha, yeah a bit of an outlandish extreme of an example. Just trying to illustrate that if we have a viable lower cost option....
I'll drop it now though. I really don't want to step on toes, and it seems like the major players have decided what direction they want to take. Its cool, I'm ok with Jemison calling me cheap.
Nizam, are there seats in the thing? It looks empty!
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James
1984 GTV6
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05-18-2007, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junglejustice
These cars will cost 10-15K...
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Carter's Spec-E30 has become the unofficial dollar benchmark. I'll bet some Spec-E30 guys are closer to $10K in initial expenses though. It would be unreasonable in my mind to think you'd get a field of "cheap Alfa people" when the entry point is $15K, and you also mentioned allowing for rule creep starting from that point (which will increase the barrier to entry).
I don't like the "go big or go home" attitude, because you've killed this idea before it has even touched asphalt. If Jay Lamm (organizer of the 24hrs of Lemons) has shown anything, it's that you CAN go racing for very little money. Why do we have to throw such big numbers to start with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carter
We left the cage and safety regs to NASA. Let them deal with the liability.
<snip>
Seriously, I raced in SCCA's Improved Touring and the rules creep killed it. The Tinkerers got their way and ITC cars went from $7,000.00 (in 1997) to $20,000 in just a few years. Our Rules stability will prevent that from happening. Spec racing isn't where great engineers can show their skills.
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If it was too expensive for SCCA's ITC, it will be too expensive for us "cheap Alfa people". That doesn't mean it cannot be done. I'm getting the feel from the majority of the folks who have chimed in that: $10K is too much (my corollary is: you'll need at least $5,000)
Fine, lower our expectations. I know for a fact that if you lower the barrier to entry you will get lots of entrants (see my example of the 24hrs of Lemons). Scraping door handles on the tarmac isn't bad ... anyone remember Jes' Roxanne at last years' Buttonwillow event? Still a pretty awesome sight
How about it JJ, turn the dial back a few grand?
Last edited by nizam; 05-18-2007 at 05:03 PM.
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05-18-2007, 05:14 PM
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The more I look at this thread, the harder it is for me to justify putting all this money into a Milano that will probably still be worth less than $5K once its all done. For the same money invested, I can build a GTV that will be worth the same or more than the money invested and GO FASTER. How about a spec GTV series?
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