Drop Spindle Discussion

[Grant]

Jon, please know that I'm not looking for a street-fight, seriously. I'm not attacking your credibility, just the validity of using Chapman's theory on our cars. I still think that saying something a wee bit vague about what Colin Chapman said and implying that it's the case for our cars just wasn't proving anything to me. I was asking for some more clarification. I think if you'll re-read that section of my post you will see that I'm not attacking you anywhere, Jon.

I just felt that I was getting a ton of information about RS kit that I have read dozens of times before. I stated in previous posts what my gripes with the system was. But in the end, you all are right -- until I drive one of these cars, all I can do is gripe. I may end up liking the system a ton. If I do, I have a GTV-6 to put an RS or Beninca setup on. I've been carefully reading the other poster's input and weighing their arguments and some of them were convincing. I just had a few problems with some of the points in your one post.

Also, I've sated before that I'm just a college kid. The only info I have is what I've experienced in my own cars. (I know that when I lower and stiffen other cars, they grip really well. When I did the same on my Alfa the results were pretty dissapointing.) I'm just looking to see if my theory is a waste of time or not, and many have said it is. But as I said, I'm pretty far down the road and I think that this will be a good learning experience for me. I also want to be able to update this thread with that I find for future reference.

As far as driving is concerned, I do have some experience with my schools FSAE race car. I'm not 100% n00b either.

No hard feelings?

[slyalfa]

I might have some input that might or might not help?
and it goes along the Chapman's which seems to say some cars are better the others . well yea.. so what.

Lets take a chepo strut car very common any roll and that will tilt the tire no matter what. so stiffer car big big improvement.

now take a double A which as function we are. If the lengthes are right we can roll as much as we want and keep the tire flat. Which Alfas are knowen for great grip with soft springs. Even look at the gtv when it first came out the reviews even knocked it due to the amount of roll it had even when it out cornered all the other cars in the review. (aka othe other cars had to use stiffer springs and still did not do as well)

And I have to say my stock springs, and on a bumpy steet have let me stomp on a lot of other cars with the stiff springs as they bounce off the road. But I know if I went to a track the same cars with the stiff springs would stomp me.

And even with good flat tires with a lot of roll if I did a zigzag a car with less roll will be better off. or very quick turns. my spider is track stiff and if I do a quick zigzag it will respong instany. on the Milano every thing is slowed down. if I go in to a slow turn I think the Milano will kill the spider. but if I do a lot of quick stuff like zigzags the spider with the stiff springs give me the instant responce that the street springs do not. but if I just go into a lazy turn and see how may Gs I can pull I think they would be close and if anything I think the Milano might win.(I think I will have to try that some time)
so I gess I am getting at there is more then just grip. the spider stays the same after a break. The Verde goes from light oversteer to more oversteer if the breaks had been used as it compress the soft springs and that uncompress for some time giving extra front grip. I have to step on it then the weight will shift and the car will stick in the back. If the spings were stiff they would not be the masive grip change front to back.

And as stated above each car is different to start with. Some where I have imporved my front so I have overster but it will go away as long as I punch it so I like it that way. but I have stock springs and sway. Just a bit of poly bushes her and there. but it seem most stock are underster so my car seem to stick a bit better then most at the front. why??? it might have to do with a bit of frame stiffing at the front? when I got the car the front was in bad shape from jacking on the frame so I weled some steel there to give me good solid jack points. but I might have also inproved the front grip some as a side affect.
given on a other post where broke there. I think I might have just welded a weak spot by luck.
I put it there to have a jack point and to stop busting headers. and I have not cracked one after I added it.
It is not clear in the pic but the L goes back along the frame past the fire wall.(I bet I lost all my crumple zone....)

[junglejustice]

...it's all good Grant - here - fly up to Seattle any time (closer - and I won't charge you the 600 Euros either) and come and drive my Verde...

[Grant]

Ahaha, will you be providing me fine German food and driving instruction too?!

Thanks for the offer. If I'm ever in the WA area, I'll be giving you a ring regardless.

Slyalfa, I really like the idea of that brace you have down there. Never thought of putting a brace down below. Louis likes the way his car handles without his chassis brace up front, but I think the understeer he's experiencing with the brace has to do with his front end being too stiff in the first place. Who knows?

[cchan]

Hi Grant,

When my Alfa is fully sorted, which shouldn't be too long as I will be bring the Alfa for the interior tomorrow you can drive my GTV6 no problem. It may have some of the options that you are looking for in terms of your suspension questions. Just don't push it too hard and hopefully it will help you answer any of your questions. I did not drive it too much but body roll is pretty much gone

[Grant]

Hey, if you're nervous, I'll sit in the passenger seat. Or better yet, come out to a track event!

And regardless of this debate or not, I wanna see that beast!

[cchan]

Hi Grant,

I am not really part of this debate since I really don't know enough to know what the real issue is. I am not nervous but just careful. Especially, after seeing the Ferrari Challange cars race at Infineon. Almost 70 % of the cars were banged up and just don't want anything crazy to happen to the Alfa out the gate. I am sure that most likely all after market parts will enhance our cars performance. Just thought I would offer this since you asked if you could drive someones car with a RS suspension in post #40 above. Remember??

[Grant]

Hey, thanks a lot for the offer. I really appreciate it. I was thinking it over, and although I'm very careful when driving other people's cars, I don't want to do anything to put your new beautiful car at risk. How about I just ride along with you sometime? I don't think we'll be able to safely see the car's limits on the streets (unless you know a place...) so I'd be happy to just see how the car rides. How low is your car?

I don't think you'll easily be able to tell if your car understeers/oversteers or w/e very safely unless you're at the track. I'll bet your car is on rails!

Any idea what your alignment is like up front? I'm alwasy curious to see what RS guys are doing for negative camber up front.

Maybe JJ could chime in here too..

[AR4me]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant I'm alwasy curious to see what RS guys are doing for negative camber up front.

[Grant]

Jes, as you know the 4 springs and shocks are the most expensive parts!

4 degrees...that's way groovey. Did the kit come with recommendations on how much to use?

[Potenziato]

Grant, you're a real wanker!

A real man would stop asking everyone on the internet to hold his hand to help him. I mean, put up or shut up. Buy a set of spindles if you're so smart. I mean from the get go you believe the spindles should work so they must work!

[nizam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potenziato Grant, your a real wanker!

[Grant]

Uhh....Louis, did you not get my PM? I sent it 2-3 days ago. I'm trying to buy them from you...how about you man up and sell them. A real racer woulda gotten the benefit of D-spindles and RS coilovers =)

PM me if you didn't get it.

And who said I needed help on this? Besides, don't you like debate?

And if you did get my PM, I don't think you should be charging me full price for a used set of Larry spindles. Not to mention I'm giving you a pair, so you're benefiting from the transaction. Let's strike a deal so I can buy them from you.

Don't forget to tech your car Louis. See you at the track!

Ps, let's caravan up there.

[Potenziato]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant Don't forget to tech your car Louis. See you at the track! Ps, let's caravan up there.

[cchan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant How low is your car? I don't think you'll easily be able to tell if your car understeers/oversteers or w/e very safely unless you're at the track. I'll