01-04-2009, 11:36 PM
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Location: South Australia
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Feed back from this will be enormously interesting!!!
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Don't worry what other people think, they don't do it very often. 
Alfa 75 Potenziata, Twincharged AW11 MR2, RB20DET S13 Silvia
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01-05-2009, 09:32 AM
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Location: San Jose, California
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Jes,
Did Richard mention anything about reinforcing the dropped spindles when he made them? Rumor has it that Beninca does to theirs and I'm wondering how necessary it is. I *think* I'm having flexing issues, but I need to change out my upper and lower bushings first to be sure.
__________________
1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]
1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!
1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
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01-05-2009, 01:08 PM
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Richard Jemison
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, Fl. U.S.A.
Posts: 1,443
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Jeez....
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If you want snap oversteer, my first Verde had the recipe. Narrow et 45 speedlines, 1.5 degree negative camber, 24mm front bar, Shanlkle Sport Springs, stock torsion bars, Koni red, tire pressures: F36 R32. This was a drift car before drifting ever was invented. I got a really wide drift coming around a low speed 2nd gear corner in the neighborhood. Imagine the fun in the rain.
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The "Real Racers" typically are running "Dropped Spindles", 30mm Torsion bars, 15' tires/rims, 23.5-10.5-15 cantilevers Hoosier/Goodyear (SCCA Rules)(Light weight Tire Rim package) Large front Sway bars, Small rear bars, 125/140lb rear springs.
Wt. 2000 lbs or so.
These cars Road race and handle wonderfully.
So do street cars with 27mm TBs, dropped spindles, Stock sway bars red Konis, and cut down rear springs. (gosh, too cheap to be true!)
When you create a jumble of parts you can`t expect much....
Get rid of the high rate sway bars & rear springs.
Do what you are going to do on the front of these cars first. Cut down the rear springs to get height and drive it to see what you might need in the rear. You may need very little spring rate increase in the rear. Put what you have in a spring checker before ordering anything else. Simple Koni`s are great, both for street & track days.
Do your homework! Don`t order stuff ie: springs, suspension parts, etc, as these other nitwits on the BB knows even less than the rest! Don`t be a big wheel, big tire copy all!!
__________________
Richard Jemison
RJR Racing
http://scuderiagiallo.com
"you don`t have to listen, but you won`t win the argument"!
"Nothing that I might suggest will be legal in California"
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01-05-2009, 01:35 PM
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Location: San Jose, California
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I think that car Louis was describing was from a decade ago...
His blue car with the RS kit was what got me interested in it in the first place...the ride was so smoooooth...
__________________
1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]
1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!
1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
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01-05-2009, 08:33 PM
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Richard Jemison
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, Fl. U.S.A.
Posts: 1,443
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???
Quote:
Jes,
Did Richard mention anything about reinforcing the dropped spindles when he made them? Rumor has it that Beninca does to theirs and I'm wondering how necessary it is. I *think* I'm having flexing issues,
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Who built yours?
There is no place to "reinforce" them.
The backside is right up to the rotor once modified. The cut is right at the dished area for the BJ.
We covered all this with your complaint sometime ago regarding design, and it was suggested you look into chassis rather than even poorly built spindles.
But the pics below show how they are preped. They are not just cut off and a longer part welded on. As well There are correct metallurgical guidlines that must be followed.
If they are not built correct then you might have issues, Why dont you post pictures of them here.
__________________
Richard Jemison
RJR Racing
http://scuderiagiallo.com
"you don`t have to listen, but you won`t win the argument"!
"Nothing that I might suggest will be legal in California"
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01-05-2009, 09:07 PM
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Location: San Jose, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfar7
Grant?
Who built yours?
There is no place to "reinforce" them.
The backside is right up to the rotor once modified. The cut is right at the dished area for the BJ.
We covered all this with your complaint sometime ago regarding design, and it was suggested you look into chassis rather than even poorly built spindles.
But the pics below show how they are preped. They are not just cut off and a longer part welded on. As well There are correct metallurgical guidlines that must be followed.
If they are not built correct then you might have issues, Why dont you post pictures of them here.
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What complaints are you referring to? Larry Jr. at APE made them. I don't have readily available pictures. The spindles are 1 and 1/8th or 1/6th inch drop. I forgot exactly.
__________________
1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]
1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!
1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
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01-05-2009, 11:50 PM
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Senior Member
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Location: SF Gay Area
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Larry didn't weld them up. I believe my set were welded up at an Alfa race shop in Berkeley.
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1996 155 V6, Squadra Tuning, RJR cams
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01-06-2009, 06:55 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
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I thought the whole point of drop spindles was to keep the lower arm horizontal or below horizontal, am I missing something?
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01-06-2009, 08:48 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3,506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUCE
I thought the whole point of drop spindles was to keep the lower arm horizontal or below horizontal, am I missing something?
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Grant, sorry about the late response. There are no visible reinforcements to the drop spindle. No room as Richard said, 1/4" at most to the rotor (on my car with non-stock brakes). The strength of the drop spindle seems to be in the manufacturing process. Richard knows all this stuff very well, and that is a huge benefit of drop spindles from him. Others may know as well, but personally I feel comfortable with his work.
Jes
__________________
87 Milano Verde - daily driver - Juliet
87 Milano 3.0 Motronic - budget race car - Roxanne
87 Milano 3.7 24v - race car
(Repeating what I suggest or do is at your own risk - be critical)
Last edited by AR4me; 01-06-2009 at 08:56 AM.
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01-07-2009, 04:29 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Austria
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfar7
You guys wear me out!
The "Real Racers" typically are running "Dropped Spindles", 30mm Torsion bars, 15' tires/rims, 23.5-10.5-15 cantilevers Hoosier/Goodyear (SCCA Rules)(Light weight Tire Rim package) Large front Sway bars, Small rear bars, 125/140lb rear springs.
Wt. 2000 lbs or so.
These cars Road race and handle wonderfully.
So do street cars with 27mm TBs, dropped spindles, Stock sway bars red Konis, and cut down rear springs. (gosh, too cheap to be true!)
When you create a jumble of parts you can`t expect much....
Get rid of the high rate sway bars & rear springs.
Do what you are going to do on the front of these cars first. Cut down the rear springs to get height and drive it to see what you might need in the rear. You may need very little spring rate increase in the rear. Put what you have in a spring checker before ordering anything else. Simple Koni`s are great, both for street & track days.
Do your homework! Don`t order stuff ie: springs, suspension parts, etc, as these other nitwits on the BB knows even less than the rest! Don`t be a big wheel, big tire copy all!! |
dropped spindles, 27mm torsion bars, yellow Konis f+r, poly bushes all round, 140lbs rear springs, lowered 40mm in the rear, matching front ride height.
Why no stiffer swaybars ?
regards
Stocki
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01-07-2009, 07:12 AM
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Richard Jemison
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, Fl. U.S.A.
Posts: 1,443
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Question
Stockii33:
What do you drive?
Quote:
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Why no stiffer swaybars ?
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Read the post...
__________________
Richard Jemison
RJR Racing
http://scuderiagiallo.com
"you don`t have to listen, but you won`t win the argument"!
"Nothing that I might suggest will be legal in California"
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01-07-2009, 08:08 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Austria
Posts: 7
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Quote:
Quote:
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...So do street cars with 27mm TBs, dropped spindles, Stock sway bars red Konis, and cut down rear springs. (gosh, too cheap to be true!)...
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Quote:
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...anything else in the rear is just going to increase oversteer.
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I thought about the front end. So: Why no stiffer swaybar at the front ?
Cheers
Stocki33
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01-07-2009, 08:59 AM
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Location: Illinois
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Quote:
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I thought about the front end. So: Why no stiffer swaybar at the front ?
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I was kinda hoping that you would have followed-up by now with the drawings you said you were going to do stocki. Maybe Bob (aka Bobsiopener) can provide the key rear suspension measurements (since he graciously provided the front) for the model as well?
If it helps you, here are a couple of depictions of the suspension from the Shop Manual.
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01-07-2009, 10:56 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Gay Area
Posts: 1,887
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Stocki,
2 relatively cheap ways to improve handling (in this case decrease understeer and make the front end more responsive)
1- Change to Twinspark bumpers if you have the heavy Milano bumpers. You will have to lower the car after doing this.
2-Move the battery to the boot. I'm using a Mazda MX-5 battery in the boot/trunk.
OK back to drop spindle discussions 
__________________
1996 155 V6, Squadra Tuning, RJR cams
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01-07-2009, 12:02 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,960
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Stocki,
I had exactly that setup described, but with a front 28mm sway bar and eventually a 26mm rear sway bar. No matter what sway bars I used, I wouldn't call it fast road. The level of grip was always a bit disappointing to me. Maybe if I had moved the battery to the rear things might have been a bit better?
__________________
1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]
1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!
1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
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