Drop Spindle Discussion - Page 21

Grant · #**301** (**permalink**) 12-29-2008, 12:38 PM

Dropped spindles ONLY lower the LCA angle. The UCA angle is unchanged when mounting dropped spindles.

Also, people using dropped spindles are usually seeing a LCA that is at a very large angle (ball joint far higher than the height of the chassis side mounting points). I'm just pointing that out because your diagrams are describing more or less what the 105 guys do.

ToonRboy · #**302** (**permalink**) 12-29-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

I`ve read through the mentioned articles, and maybe didn`t get it right as I thought the dimensions have been taken from a GTV6 ?

**AR4me** · #**303** (**permalink**) 12-29-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToonRboy

Well, because there is such a thing as excessive negative camber my humble engineer. Excessive negative camber will cause the car to wander and follow every road contour, get squirrely on hard braking & you'll wear the inside of your tires to the belts before you're done paying off your charge card that you bought 'em with. Not to mention what it does to your wheel bearings.

Grant · #**304** (**permalink**) 12-29-2008, 06:13 PM

My dropped spindles were modified for bump steer, but not Ackerman. The car drove down the road much nicer with dropped spindles. It is hard to explain, but I could feel the difference in roll center - the car reacted to small steering inputs differently than before, and there was also less bump steer (but compared to other cars I've later found out, Milanos don't have very bad bump steer issues as it is, cars can be a LOT worse).

I think for a street car that someone plans on keeping for a long time, it's a very worthwhile modification. I felt the increase in grip at the limit was quite noticeable, but not earth shattering. You can feel a much bigger increase in grip by switching to high spring rates, like the RS kit, than from just bolting on dropped spindles IMO. I think it is obvious from this thread, that a few of us feel that dropped spindles are a necessary modification for the very spirited driver, but I would buy or make coilovers before upgrading the spindles or starting of with a 28.9mm or larger torsion bar available from Beninca. Also, buying the spindles is quite pricey as it's a very labor intensive job I've been told, and requires the destruction of at least one pair of spindles. It's too bad we don't have the market to have some new sets cast for us - avoiding the complexity and whatever safety issues are involved in making of the spindles (if any)

Echo Leader · #**305** (**permalink**) 12-29-2008, 06:28 PM

Jes, do you know what static camber you're running on your street Milano? Most of what I've heard is that relatively high static negative camber doesn't accelerate wear much. The real tire life killer is apparently toe. I guess there's limits to everything though...

**AR4me** · #**306** (**permalink**) 12-29-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo Leader

Jes, do you know what static camber you're running on your street Milano?

**75evo** · #**307** (**permalink**) 12-29-2008, 10:01 PM

Jes,

You me need spacers for the front RSR coilovers, Grant had to do the same.

BTW I'm running -3 degrees negative camber on the front.

**AR4me** · #**308** (**permalink**) 12-29-2008, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75evo

Jes,
You me need spacers for the front RSR coilovers, Grant had to do the same.

**75evo** · #**309** (**permalink**) 12-29-2008, 11:14 PM

Ooops! I thought it was for Roxanne.

**AR4me** · #**310** (**permalink**) 12-29-2008, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75evo

Ooops! I thought it was for Roxanne.

stocki33 · #**311** (**permalink**) 12-30-2008, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Dropped spindles ONLY lower the LCA angle. The UCA angle is unchanged when mounting dropped spindles

Echo Leader · #**312** (**permalink**) 12-30-2008, 12:09 PM

Stocki,

At least with Richard Jemison's drop spindles, only the relationship between the LCA ball joint and the spindle center is changed. The UCA-to-spindle center relationship is unchanged. You are correct in that if you just install the dropped spindles without adjusting the Torsion bar angle, the LCA angle stays the same and the UCA would be angled more severely. If the car has previously been lowered via Torsion bar adjustments, the installation of the drop spindles will require re-adjusting the Torsions in order to offset the drop.

Grant · #**313** (**permalink**) 12-30-2008, 12:44 PM

If the dropped spindles are installed first without adjusting the ride height, the LCA would remain in the same position but the UCA would be angled more dramatically, as James pointed out.

But, at that point the car would be much lower than before, as the spindle would be much higher. At that point, if one is looking to maintain the same ride height, the torsion bars are pulled and the angle of the LCA at rest is more horizontal than before, with the UCA angle remaining roughly the same as before. This is assuming the same ride height is desired before and after installing dropped spindles.

Dropped spindles also allow you to install the LCA bolts in the same manner as stock. With larger torsion bars that cannot be pulled back and out to adjust height, the LCA has to be completely removed from the car allowing you to pull the torsion bars towards the front of the car and out. Once the torsion bar is placed back in after the splines are counted/LCA height measured you have to bolt the LCA back into place. The problem is is that the LCA bolt heads won't clear the LCA if you intend on a much lower ride height. The options at that point are to lift the engine slightly and reverse the orientation of the bolts so that the bolt head doesn't foul on the LCA, or to use 2 friends on the end of a 7 foot steel pole to force the LCA down and out. Pretty dangerous situation for the person needing to quickly put the bolts into place

.

Dropped spindles make this much easier as the LCA angle with the car off of the ground and the LCA's hanging completely free (no shocks, ARB, torsion bars, or Spindle attached - although I think I've done the job once with spindle still on, but no UCA attached) is much closer to what Alfa envisioned with a car going back down at stock height. Since there is more material below the wheel bearings at any given ride height, the LCA will be in a much easier to work with position. That luxury alone makes the spindles more worthwhile.

BRUCE · #**314** (**permalink**) 12-31-2008, 07:54 PM

.. so tell me, alfa SZ owners, what is the angle of the lower and upper control arms at rest (not moving)?

**AR4me** · #**315** (**permalink**) 01-04-2009, 11:26 PM

I finally got time to re-do the front suspension on the 3.7 race car. It now has 1.65" drop spindles from Richard, and Ron's full race suspension which eliminates rubber/poly bushings, has adjustable shocks, and uses a true coil over at the rear. Anyway, here are some pics:
1. old and new spindle
2. front right side assembled
3. right side on the ground (with drop spindle)
4. left side on the ground (with original spindle) - both sides at similar ride height.
5. the spindle clearance to 7x17" TD Pro Race 1.

The 3rd picture shows the sway bar still disconnected where it was adjusted with the original spindle (other side of sway is still attached to A-arm with original spindle). So, it basically shows how much more level the A-arm is with the drop spindle.

Jes