Finding TDC for timing belt and water pump change

[Zarcon]

I need to pull my water pump as it has started leaking. (The leak started due to my changing the water pump/alternator vee belt and putting on too much tension). I have never changed a timing belt, so this is new for me.

The first part of the job is to set the engine at top dead center for cylinder one during the compression stroke (shop manual). How do I manage this? I know that I need to have the pointer aligned to the P on crank pulley and the distributor rotor pointing at cyl 1. That said, I could use some backup here.

How do I know it is on the comprssion stroke? Which do I align first, the crank pulley or the rotor? The manual says something about a reference mark inside the distributor, but I couldnt see any such mark.

Thanks in advance for any advice,
James

edit
I know this has been covered, but i couldnt find the threads. I would appreciate any appropriate links.

[Zarcon]

Update,
I have the crank pulley on the P mark and the distributor pointing in the direction of cyl number 1. It seems that the rotor is ten degrees clockwise past the center of the cyl 1 contact on the cap.
What should I do now? Should I pull the valve covers to verify the location of the cams?

Also, I noticed that Jes posted photos of the distributor and crank pulley during a timing belt change in his Roxanne thread on page 1.
Roxanne - budget milano/75 track car

[AlfaVerde88]

I will send you the template to get the cam timing right without removing the valve covers. Make you you have your printer set on 8x14 paper or print on two pages and tape the two sheets together. Actually, I cannot attach things on here so here is the link

164 12v V6 timing marks TDC and Cams

[slyalfa]

if you remove the round dust caps there is a arrows and a line on each pully. they all should line up. if all 3 marks line up you are ready to go.
the belt is easy to do I can do it in about 15Min. having to drane the coolent takes the most time.
after you have done it a few times the jobs goes very fast.

Note: to check for compression stroke on any motor is to remove the spark plug(#1) and pluged it with somthing like a finger (on any other motor) use a rubber plug on the alfa v6, turn untill it blows out the finger/plug and stop when the lines on the pully line up.

[Zarcon]

Thanks for the replies. I will print that template and use it. That should be much easier than taking off the valve covers and checking on the cams.

[MrT]

Zarcon,

With the V6's some folks (like me now) like to retorque the heads periodically. I've queued up the 164s in the family to get retorqued when timing belt time comes around because I didn't do that when we did timing belts on them at acquisition. They have traces of oil showing up in the coolant, and it makes me nervous. Maybe this is a 3L issue and not a problem with the 2.5L engines, but I am not certain which you have.

Michael

edit: Rick's template is a marvelous addition to the toolbox -- great labor-saver. I was flagging the retorque issue as the only reason I know that one might choose to open the valve covers anyway. We have two 164L cars due for special attention this spring, so I'll not be saving that labor this time around. But I've used the template four separate times and found it to be wonderfully useful.

[Alfisto Steve]

We all use Rick's template now to set up cams. If engine now running OK then timing on distributor rotor must be correct but you need to maintain it when you but on new belt so before removing belt check cams using template to be sure cams are correct with front pulley at P.

Here is link to template: 164 12v V6 timing marks TDC and Cams

[Zarcon]

MrT- The engine in question is a 3 liter Verde engine which is installed in a Milano Gold. The car has a transaxle from a Platinum and no sun roof It also has the power steering and air conditioning deleted. It is a fun car.

It is a good suggestion to retorque the head bolts. I wont be doing that this time around, since I dont have a torque wrench...
I verified that the cams line up with the crank pulley on P. The distributor is pointed at cylinder 1. I marked the belt on the cams and on the distributor pulley to help maintain alignment. I am going to put this timing belt back on since it looks really good and Alfa timing belts are not available here in Mexico. I know that most people will cry foul, but I plan to change this belt within the year anyway.

As for the water pump (also unavailable in Mexico) I have gotten good news. There is a local company that will rebuild my pump for less than $30. That is less than I would have paid to have a pump mailed here from the USA. They said that they usually have a one day turn around and i should be able to get my pump tomorrow. Hmm, this is one of the rare times Mexico has really come through for me.

My plan is to clean the front of the motor and reinstall the water pump using sylicone instead of a gasket. What type of sylicone should I use?
I plan to test the alignment of the belt by pushing the car while it is in fourth gear to rotate the motor. Then if the cams and crank line up after a rotation, I should be in good shape, right?

[Hit an Apex]

Good luck James! Hit my AIM or Email if you need anything..

[slyalfa]

mark the direcction the belt moves too. like a tire you do not want to change the direction it has been going.

[Gilles]

[quote=Zarcon;326019] I plan to test the alignment of the belt by pushing the car while it is in fourth gear to rotate the motor.

Zarcon: To rotate the engine witout moving the car, just lift one of the rear wheels off the ground and turn the wheel (in 4th gear as well), if I remember correctly one complete rotation of the wheel it's almost 1 engine revolution its very easy with the plugs removed

Saludos, Gilles

[Zarcon]

Slyalfa- I have marked the direction, thanks for the suggestion.

Gilles- I will try lifting one of the rear wheels, but I dont know if it will work since I have a limited slip diff.

[Gilles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarcon Gilles- I will try lifting one of the rear wheels, but I dont know if it will work since I have a limited slip diff.

[Zarcon]

Gilles- I am located in Torreon, Coah.

I am about to go and see if the pump is ready (precident says that it will not be ready, but the place I took it to is supposed to be very professional).

While waiting around today I cleaned the front of the engine and installed new poly castor rod bushings from Performatek. I have been putting that off for a while, glad to have it done. It was extra easy with everything cleared out from the front of the engine. I knew that my stock bushings were in bad shape, but I was actually a bit shocked to find out how bad they actually were. That stock bushing is a joke.

I hope to install the pump tonight if I get it back.

James