milano verde

alfaboy85 · #1 (**permalink**) 02-25-2007, 08:15 PM

So i test drove an 88 verde today with my father. The car has 199k on the odometer but no oil leaks and burns little to no oil. The only problem we felt was that the car seemed to top out at around 3500 rpms. My dad said it felt like a rev limiter almost, though he would slowly creep past 3.5k to 4k. has anyone else experianced this and if so is it a matter of timing. We want to know what we'll be getting into if we buy this beautiful car.

AlfaVerde88 · #2 (**permalink**) 02-25-2007, 08:39 PM

There are a couple of culprits I can think of after dealing with two different Milanos. One was a 2.5 and the other is a Verde. Timing is one thing to look at as well as the AFM. Make sure it is still sealed. The previous owner may have adjusted it. If they have, they may have tried to put it back to stock but put too much tension on the spring that holds the flap closed. If you are able to, loosen the tension on the spring by rotating the gear counter clock wise. Make sure you mark where you started. I would go in three to five tooth intervals. Visit the Greg Gordon website at Hiperformancestore.com and look at the tech article for tuning the L-Jetronic fuel management. He has a run-down on the AFM towards the bottom of the page. When it starts getting lean you will feel a kind of surge at full throttle. If you have a timing light you should make sure the reference mark on the crank pulley is set to "F" which should be 7 degrees advance from TDC. If you are running 91/92 octane you can advance it to 11 degrees as long as it does not ping. At higher alititudes, like where I live, I can run my Verde at 15 degrees. Cap, rotor, and plugs will also contribute to that condition as well as any other secondary ignition failure. Fuel delivery would also be a factor. When I bought my Verde it was having the same problems and after I adjusted the AFM and timing I was back up to normal. There are a couple of other things to check in a more worse case scenario type of situation, but I would check all of those other things first. After some careful and educated tuning of my Verde it pulls all the way to redline and seems to have plenty of life left for more if the rev limiter was raised. If all else you can check the compression, but if it is not losing any oil it is unlikely. Not to say that it cannot happen, but most the times you can tell by smoke out of the exhaust during acceleration and a couple of other things. All in all it does not sound too bad. All of the Alfas I have owned needed some tuning to get to where I wanted them to perform. The problem is that there are a lot of people who own Alfas and have no idea of how to maintain them and take them to techs who really have no idea of how to work on them. I learned about Alfas by buying one and then having it die and sit in the garage for two weeks before I figured it out. Drove it for a month and then it died again and was back in the garage for another couple of weeks while I went through everything again and finally tracked down a faulty ground circuit in the ecu. Alfas need plenty of attention by capable people and people who care. If you can give them that they will reward you will a very pleasurable driving experience. To end this essay, if the price is right I would say go for it. Even if you put a lot of work into it, you learned about the car and you have something personal invested which makes any car that much enjoyable.

NMMilano · #3 (**permalink**) 02-25-2007, 09:16 PM

When I bought mine it also seemed slow and unwilling to rev. A great local ALFA guy tuned it and timed it, I live at 5000ft. These motors respond to proper timming.

alfaboy85 · #4 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 12:14 AM

yeah wow thanks for all the info. yeah when i saw it today i was amazed at how my knowledge with spider's and now particularly bosch L jet really helped me understand what i was looking at. Yeah, from what I noticed we had no smoke out the tail pipe and the guy we are buying it from is a BMW mechanic and he said he was lost on the alfa. figures. He was a really nice guy and said for him price doesn't matter as long as he can get the alfa to a good home.

well lets just say my dad and i are alfaholics through and through so he really enjoyed us. Thanks for the imput guys! I may just take it to the same guy I take my 85 spider to have him tune the bosch when we get it home.
On a side note I'm very amazed with the way this four door sedan handles!!! I mean coming from a spider I felt the body roll and was almost let down at first but its weird, the car seems to roll a little and then just digs in. I've got to say it was alot of fun!! I'm happy to be joining the ranks of this part of the forum.

JoeCab · #5 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaboy85

So i test drove an 88 verde today with my father. The car has 199k on the odometer but no oil leaks and burns little to no oil. The only problem we felt was that the car seemed to top out at around 3500 rpms. My dad said it felt like a rev limiter almost, though he would slowly creep past 3.5k to 4k. has anyone else experianced this and if so is it a matter of timing. We want to know what we'll be getting into if we buy this beautiful car.

**alfaparticle** · #6 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 05:52 AM

Are you sure that it is not just the tacho? Mine never goes above 3000 rpm even when it is doing around 70 mph in second gear.
Ed Prytherch, Columbia SC
74 GTV
79 Spider
82 Spider
88 Milano Verde

slyalfa · #7 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 08:50 AM

I 2nd the tach. tell us how fast it will go in say 2nd.

alfaboy85 · #8 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 10:49 AM

no my dad felt the engine stop accelerating at around 3.5, it may be a combination of the two but you can't feel the tach messing up like this. It really felt like he'd hit a limiter. I dont have the car yet, I'm only going on the info i have from the one drive we got.

fraz · #9 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 02:16 PM

Yeah, but did it "sound" like 3500RPM? My tach doesn't work for d_ck anymore and I have seen a lot of ill tachs on Milanos. I agree replacing timing components and retiming are in order first. If that doesn't work, you _could_ have a bad ECU. The "rev limiter feel" you mention sounds like the fuel cut off from the ECU. These things do go bad once in a while.

FWIW, I love to play PG Muni and come down occasionally. I have an extra ECU computer you can try if the prior fails and you want to eliminate other possibilities. Let me know and I can loan it to you if you want.

I doubly agree with slyalfa on 2nd gear speed for a check. My limiter kicks at 65MPH in 2nd gear with stock gear ratio and very slightly smaller diameter tires.

AlfaVerde88 · #10 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 03:59 PM

If it was the rev limiter it would not be able to creep to a higher RPM. When the rev limiter hits it is very distinguishable. It sounds more like at 3,500 you felt the car drag like you were towing a boat. All signs sound like ingition to me. Start with the most likely probablities and go from there. Keep us posted.

alfaboy85 · #11 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 03:30 PM

so here are pics, i drove it and when you try to get into the gas pedal it hesitates but when you just barely hit the gas it accelerates smoother than before. I personally think its a stuck door in the AFM but i want your guy's opinion on it. It also seems to need new guibo's but thats easy and will be done once the parts arrive. Also the gauges seems to lie but that seems to be a common poroblem. All and all the car feels FAST and thats with this timing issue. The body is beautiful and the recaro's make me jealous. also in teh pics you can catch a glimpse of my 85 laid up in the garage and my dad's poorly timed and what seems like always broken 81.

nizam · #12 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 03:59 PM

Wow Mike, you've scored a pretty one. Congrats!

If you don't solve the problem soon, pop me an IM. I'm always looking for excuses to drive down in the Alfa to your neck of the woods ... and I can help troubleshoot your problem.

Mezevenf · #13 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 04:12 PM

Nice and clean! Looks great

Btw, whats this?

DonBeeson · #14 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 05:11 PM

Looks like a keeper! Even if there is a small problem.
Those headlight covers are really tough to see, my original milano had those but they had yellowed long before i got them. One fell off the first time I drove it!
Looks like the owner has done a bit of customization.

alfaboy85 · #15 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 04:24 AM

a little but more than i can deal with. That thing is an ungo box which according to the PO is a anti theft device that was big in the early 90's. You should see the stereo!! It doesn't work and its got a trio of amps and a digital crossover the size of a PS2 in the trunk. I need to get the guibos and the gauges fixed though, then the stereo. Its due for a tune up next tuesday with the guy who looks at the bosch on my spider. If anyone knows a good alfa guy near me let me know, i'm all ears.